Project24 - Stage 6 - Fulham V Arsenal

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by crazy150, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #126 NorthBank, Oct 8, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
    Got the answer on today's Arsecast...

    "... He comes from Uruguay, he's only 5 foot 5"

    Rings some bells that.
     
  2. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    I would expect Lacazette and PEA to continue finishing at about the same rate, the drop off will be from the other players.
     
  3. KozIsCul

    KozIsCul Member+

    Feb 6, 2005
    Yeah, this.
     
  4. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just got around to watching the game. Is it me or were we playing a 4-4-2 (4-2-2-2?) When Laca/Becks & Laca/PAE were on the field at the same time? Was announced as a 4-2-3-1 but I never saw anything resembling that when I was watching. With Laca/Becks it looked like Iwobi on the LW and Miki on RW with Becks playing a free roaming SS type role. When PAE came in it seemed like he and Laca were playing more side-by-side. When Laca exited we looked like a 4-3-3 with Xhaka at the base and Miki/Ramsey on the wings.
     
  5. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was 4-4-2. And for a while when Lacazette was subbed it was Ramsey and Auba up top with Torreira (!) on the right of the midfield.

    What do you mean by 'announced as a 4-2-3-1'?
     
  6. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When they showed the lineup on the ticker it showed as a 4-2-3-1 alignment.
     
  7. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah that doesn't mean anything. The media get a team sheet which is just a list of 11 players. And they try to fit it into a system they think we're going to play based on recent history.
     
  8. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup. 4-4-2. In 2018? My god what could our coach be thinking of?!!

    p.s. Becks? He retired years ago. But our boy Welbz followed his footsteps through Carrington. ;)
     
  9. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True true. And fairly often they get it wrong. And very very few networks make it clear that it's a "projected" formation.
     
  10. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
  11. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Xg is the best pseudo intellectualism out these at the moment

    Everyone is obsessed about models of xg and all this shit

    How about u watch the game, enjoy it. See all the things you don’t need xg to see like how we are being very lucky and clinical at the moment without using decimal points

    I think this is a very American thing, utterly obsessed with stats

    No one here is a writer, as far as I know anyway so why not discuss what you have seen

    Not just copy and paste someone else’s opinion? I feel like people read intellectual football websites and pass of the writing as their own opinion

    Itsbtedious
     
  12. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Hoboken NJ
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair points, Big.

    I see a team growing in confidence and playing better as a team. We still have some ways to go but we are almost back to being a legit top 4 squad.
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Personally I never think about xG during the game and did enjoy it. I don't get your point.

    People analyse the game here afterwards.

    As for whether it is American - i give you cricket.
     
  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    You are quoting me for some reason

    But anyway a key reason Arse are back in the top 4 is that Utd and Spurs have been bad.
     
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I am off to the pub to get pissed, get home drunk and smack the missus

    ja gunners ja!
     
  16. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    SO because I don’t copy and paste other peoples opinions and findings and claim them as my own I beat my wife?

    She beats me, and not in a good way
     
  17. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Prince iwobi

    He has to start either left or instead of ozil and Ramsey atm
     
  18. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For what it's worth, I find the xG discussions in a match thread following said match to be interesting and have no problem with those discussions here. But you can disagree with others who don't find it interesting or express this same sentiment in language muuuuch less inflammatory. Please do so in the future. Thanks.
     
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  19. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Depends on the model. Every bob and his uncle has an XG model. The only one that puts theirs out there for free has examples of outperforming the model over a season. Understat.com. Chelsea two seasons ago comes to mind with 23 goals more than expected.

    Also the models are self fulfilling in that they are created to fit past data and then modified as the data set grows. It’s like saying you have a model that tracks stock market accurately over its history. Doesn’t mean it will fit future data as well because you’ve tweaked it to fit the historic data. Meanwhile, teams are constantly learning and training to be more efficient at scoring goals and defending them using the very same data.

    This has nothing to do with what we were talking about which was the tweet about us being +8 in goals this season.

    And I’m not invoking a hot hand theory to say that shots are not independent and distinct events. I’m not saying that a player who has hit three shots is more likely to hit a fourth than his first shot.

    What I’m saying is that player make adjustments based on previous shots. Consider a pitcher in baseball, he throws two high pitches unintentionally. He will make adjustments to bring the third down. A golfer who pulls a couple of drives will make adjustments. It’s the same in footy. Players are constantly adjusting based on previous outcomes. These aren’t random coin flips.

    This and the fact that shots effect game-situation/tactics of both teams mean one cannot simply add the XG especially in a single game. But this is exactly how the models are developed by fitting them to goal totals. It’s an issue.
     
  20. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    Sorry man. It’s the interlul again and we will ramble on for pages. This discussion is relevant to the game since many think this was our best performance and yet the xG has us appearing “lucky” to win.

    Sorry if you find it annoying.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I really worry Ozil has a chronic back injury
     
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  22. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    #147 casoccerdad47, Oct 9, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
    Everyone loves a dribbler. I too was impressed by Iwobi's dribbling yesterday, but it did lack an end product. No shots, no key passes, completed just 65% of his passes. In the end it's about creating chances and Iwobi didn't create any chances yesterday.
     
  23. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    I suspect he hit the weights to hard when bulking up for the EPL.
     
  24. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could be true. But maybe we can take comfort that we played arguably our best game of the season without him.

    And that, in a nutshell, is why I think many fans, myself included, are not very jazzed up about Ozil at Arsenal lately. Although we pay him MVP wages, he hasn't really come close to being an MVP in practice. The reason for that has been debated up and down, but nobody really knows why.

    However, it seems that a significant chunk of fans, and perhaps even our coach, have moved on... to a certain extent. As crazy as that seems, considering the contract both sides signed!

    I honestly hope that this changes. That the situation reverses. That his undisputed and unique skills come to the fore, and make him one of the very first players written into Emery's matchday XI, and in a consistent tactical position that suits us and him. But I wonder what are the odds of that?
     
  25. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Ozil needs a nice rest and rebuild. It happens from time to time. His game has changed every season for 3 season on the run now. I feel like he is having a little bit of a football identity crisis. Knowing what you do, and knowing how you do what you do, aren't the same thing after all.
     

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