Pro/Rel Again (Prompted by USL for Sale)

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by millwalldavey, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    well then explain the attendance of 6,000 for the CCL game between Columbus and PR.?

    MLS fans don't care about CCL, they care about their precious play-offs and MLS cup.
     
  2. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And there is literally nothing stopping a person from starting a USL team in those cities. All it takes is a $700,000 franchise fee and a stadium that seats at least 5k and you've got a USL-1 team. USL-2 takes significantly less than that.
     
  3. ChefJim27

    ChefJim27 Member

    Feb 9, 2008
    Holy crap this is funny. Do you know what the biggest benifit USL-1 gets when Portland and Vancouver go to MLS in 2011?

    They get to stop travelling to the Pacific Northwest! The furthest western clubs will be Minnesota and Austin. The last time USL-1 was in California, was the Victory, out of San Fransicso in 2006. The team lasted one season before folding. If the USL wants to go to Idaho, or Kansas, or Oklahoma, they are welcome to do so. If they want to sell a product, they need someone to sell it, and someone to buy it. If they have both, and enough of both, they will be in those markets, and they will make money. If not, it's all academic. Academic, by the way, refers to learning, something you are apparently unwilling to do. Pity. I bet you would bring alot to a thread you have any facts about.

    EDIT: As far as the CCL goes, it is now in its second season. US fans right now don't give a damn about MLS, and real MLS fans are among the most rabid in the USA. 6000 is pretty good for a match against a USL club in a tournament that has less history than Family Guy...
     
  4. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And then the PDL will fold because the vast majority of it's players are college players who will no be allowed to play. And USL wll go from an 80 something team structure to a 20-24 team structure.
     
  5. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mean explain attendance that outdrew all but three USL teams (two of which are joining MLS in the next few years). Yup. Total failure on behalf of the Crew fans.
     
  6. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Portland coach said it's not a 100% done deal going to MLS and Van and Mon are in talks with the new investors of USL.

    Why would a successful club go to MLS with all the restrictions?

    that Family Guy team you are referring to had a attendance of +10k for it's CCL games and Montreal had 30k.
     
  7. DCU1996

    DCU1996 Member

    Jun 3, 2002
    N. VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    pro/rel issue will be raised again and again because it's basically one of the three main expansion model.

    We already reached almost 19. What are you going to do next?

    1. just stop at 20 or 24. (3-4 of them being Canadian teams)
    --> As soccer gains popularity other teams will join USL. USL will get stronger and stronger, it will eat up MLS's profit as a serious competition

    2. keeps expanding to 26 28 30 32... with wired conference/division set up and fcked up schedule.

    3. pro/rel.

    some people have some allergic reaction to pro/rel, but whenever there's discussion about expansion and league design, pro/rel will be brought up.
     
  8. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    No. I wanted the thread closed because you are absolutely right. Your infallible logic is making fools of other posters. They don't understand how great the US is and how soccer works. There are too many MLS-snobs. They all think MLS is the best when USL-1, USL-2 and even PDL are often better. They probably don't even know USL had promotion/relegation once upon a time if you had the money and resources. It's just USSF and FIFA that want MLS to be the top flight. USL has many more fans since soccer in the US is at the grassroots level.
     
  9. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Vancouver's USL rights were bought by the Victoria Highlanders, just like the Sounders' USL rights were purchased by the Seattle Wolves. Also.. How is attendance at Toronto Lynx games? They've got to be doing gang busters now that Toronto has TFC.. Oh.. Wait... Damn....
     
  10. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    one example WOW

    and Toronto sell-outs out every game...oh wait Toronto is in CANADA.

    Canadians support soccer better than ther southern neighbors.

    and yes +30k you can thank seattle because if it weren't for Seattle. The MLS average would be the worst in history.

    BTW it helped that Seattle already had a long soccer history and fanbase.
     
  11. ChefJim27

    ChefJim27 Member

    Feb 9, 2008
    http://www.portlandmls2011.com/

    It would be considered a "breach of contract" right now. Say it with me. The USL is for sale. MLS is a profitable league. If you still think sports are for competition, fine. Here, in the real world, sports are for making money. They are a buisness. Why else are some clubs in Europe considering a "super Europe league?" Why else, Money. Why do you think the Premiership was formed? Money. Why does the CCL exist anyway? Money. The CCL will be a moneymaker for CONCACAF, but now is now...


    Yeah... I wasn't comparing any team to Peter Griffin and family. I was saying the CCL is brand new, and therefore, not important yet. BTW: Montreal had 50K for its CCL match. Where does their owner want them to go? MLS! Why go to MLS if it is so terrible? Why start this whole argument about USL clubs getting promoted to MLS if it is so bad in the first place? Are you flinging poo against a wall and hoping something will stick?
     
  12. jaisz

    jaisz New Member

    Jun 21, 2009
    MLS 1.0
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So the MLS is making good business decisions and the USL is losing some of their best teams.
     
  13. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Portland Timbers Head coach - Gavin Wilkinson said it...82:08

    http://www.soccersam.com/media/audio/20090815.mp3
     
  14. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Montreal is another team from USL (United Soccer Leagues) coming into MLS. How do you envisage the relationship with USL? Do you see it as a feeding area for MLS in the future?

    I’m not quite sure about that. USL is going through some transition on their own and clearly our league came on the scene when the USL’s predecessors were already in place. In many markets, Montreal, Vancouver, Seattle and Toronto they have had some success and when they are successful they come into MLS. I am not sure what the future holds for that league or our relationship with it. I do believe that we can only all benefit from a strong minor league and a strong connection between it and the major league in this country. I look forward to seeing how that progresses in the years ahead.

    http://blogs.reuters.com/soccer/2009/08/05/don-garber-q-a/


    http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2007/11/23/american-soccer-below-mls-how-important-is-the-usl/
     
  15. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *laugh* Seriously, find a single MLS city where a USL team is doing well. Seattle Wolves pull in 100-200 a game, Kitsap Pumas bring in about double that on a very good day. Both have said they are willing to go to USL-2, but they won't do it until USL has enough teams in the west to support a new division. The problem with groups buying the franchises for USL teams going MLS is that they are coming in as PDL teams, not as USL-1 teams.

    Side note, what does Toronto being in Canada have to do with USL?
     
  16. ChefJim27

    ChefJim27 Member

    Feb 9, 2008
    Sure. The head coach knows more than the ownership group. Ok. You're right. Sorry I ever doubted you.

    Back to the blogs again, are we? This changes nothing about the premise of this thread. How do either of these posts affect your earlier assumption that Pro/Rel is what's going to save MLS and give US professional soccer instant credibility worldwide. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I want USL to succeed. I want to see the USL successful and profitable. I want the USL Champion to get the 4th automatic berth in the CCL. I think that assuming that pro/rel is on the horizon is about as sane as assuming the LAPD framed OJ Simpson in 1994. If you are going to use assumption and opinionated blogs as resourses, could you at least not use ones that are 20 months old?
     
  17. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I'm just saying it's feasible in the future be it 10 years or 100 years.
     
  18. barroldinho

    barroldinho Member+

    Man Utd and LA Galaxy
    England
    Aug 13, 2007
    Ex-pat in HB, CA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Sweet mother of.....!!!!

    Come on man. That's a very very broad statement. Of course pro/rel might happen sometime, but the general debate here surrounds the liklihood of it happening in the foreseeable future and the reasons why it would.

    I don't mean any offence, this is clearly something you're very passionate about and would like to see happen, but statements like your last one make it look like you're just maneouvering to win the argument on semantics.
     
  19. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well how can I support something that everyone is disagreeing on: My question to everybody if Garber said it's up to the fans and the owners agree, the board agrees, would you like to see pro/rel? yes or no
     
  20. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again with the stupid ass hypotheticals. Seriously, the owners are never going to give anyone as stupid as us fans control over their business. Do you even think before you type thngs out?
     
  21. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm done with you bozos, can't even answer a hypothetical question. Damn what's so hard to understand if it was up to the fans would you want pro/rel? yes or no

    you probably can't utter those words YES and PRO/REL
     
  22. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    I'm done with you bozos, can't even answer a legitimate, fact based question. Damn what's so hard to understand that a small group of fans don't run the league and that pro/rel isn't financially viable or good for the growth of soccer in the US?
     
  23. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's a hypothetical that is about as likely as yours. If the head of the FDA left it up to the people to decide if beer was free and the beer companies agreed, would you be in favor of free beer?
     
  24. WhiteStar Warriors

    Mar 25, 2007
    St.Pete/Krakow
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yes, but you still can't answer the question?
     
  25. Yoshou

    Yoshou Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought you were done with us bozos?
     

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