Matchday 15 Saturday 2 December 12:30 Chelsea v Newcastle (Sky Sports) Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Matthew Wilkes Fourth official: Roger East Brighton & Hove Albion v Liverpool Referee: Graham Scott Assistants: Peter Kirkup, Richard West Fourth official: Stuart Attwell Everton v Huddersfield Town Referee: Chris Kavanagh Assistants: Gary Beswick, M McDonough Fourth official: Mike Dean Leicester City v Burnley Referee: Paul Tierney Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Andy Garratt Fourth official: Lee Probert Stoke City v Swansea City Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Adam Nunn, Ian Hussin Fourth official: Neil Swarbrick Watford v Tottenham Hotspur Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Lee Betts, Stephen Child Fourth official: Darren England West Bromwich Albion v Crystal Palace Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Simon Bennett, Stuart Burt Fourth official: Lee Mason 17:30 Arsenal v Manchester United (BT Sport) Referee: Andre Marriner Assistants: Simon Beck, Scott Ledger Fourth official: Anthony Taylor Sunday 3 December 13:30 AFC Bournemouth v Southampton (Sky Sports) Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Eddie Smart, Harry Lennard Fourth official: Roger East 16:00 Manchester City v West Ham United (Sky Sports) Referee: Mike Dean Assistants: Simon Long, Daniel Cook Fourth official: Mike Jones Marriner is in charge of the third consecutive match between Arsenal and Man Utd. Friend with a match-up that's more often interesting than not.
Speculating about the relationship Clattenburg now has (or does not have) with his former ARs is absolutely fascinating to me. After EURO 2016, he had Collin and Bennett (Beck having retired as a FIFA). It looks like Collin has disappeared this season, too. I wonder if Clattenburg's retirement prompted his or if there was a different reason or an injury. As for Bennett, he's young, so he still has a WC in him if he can get tied to Oliver internationally. But now that's a gamble rather than a certainty.
Not to mention ending England's proud streak of having a referee at every World Cup, at least when England took the World Cup seriously. Is it the longest streak of having a referee at a World Cup ended?
This shows the problem with most of the ARs. Their fortunes are tied to their CR, no matter how good they are themselves. Basically they are the Ed McMahons of the officiating world! PH
It looks like Spain has a streak going back to 1950, which is a tie that will now be broken in 2018. But I think Italy has the longest streak, dating back to 1934.
Hackett blasts PGMOL. refereeing mistakes and no English Ref at WC! http://you-are-the-ref.com/hacketts-verdict-evidence-need-act/ PH
There were no mistakes when Hackett refereed, right? This stuff gets real tiresome. Also the argument about not having a WC referee is asinine beyond comprehension. There is only one person to blame for that fact and he’s also a retired English referee.
"Back in my day..." "Get off my lawn." Also putting Halsley in the same group as Webb and Clattenburg is laughable.
I think the point is not that there are mistakes, it is just the frequency and the type of error. The same few referees are the ones making errors it seems. Also I think that in the past the FA got an automatic referee appointment to the World Cup, so that even if one dropped out, he would be replaced. Clattenburg resigned in enough time for a replacement to be named. I remember when Elleray had announced that he would be not available for the 98 WC because the WC dates clashed with the college entrance exams and his duties at the school where he was a Housemaster. He was replaced without any issues by Durkin who it seems did not do too well as he was not used in the KO stage despite England going out in the round of 16. It is not only Hackett who has been complaining about the way the PGMOL has been run for the past few years in terms of training, referee development and assignments. PH
And I think it's a silly point to make; one which lacks self-awareness. Hackett didn't have to work in an era with 20 cameras per match with hi-def and slo-mo replay. He pontificates as if everything was wonderful in his era. I've seen the videos. It wasn't. Horrific challenges regularly went unpunished when Hackett and his contemporaries were around. Does Mike Dean get to write an article about how Keith Hackett handled Vinnie Jones? If this automatic slot existed in the past (and I won't actively dispute it could have officially existed, but I would also posit that it could have unofficially existed simply because certain countries--England, Italy, France, Spain, Brazil, Argentina, Mexico--were always going to have one of the top referees from their confederation), it does not exist now. That sort of unofficial/official quota system went out the window in 2006 when the pre-selected official candidate lists came into existence. There is a formal process where referee teams compete against each other for over 2 full years. If one team abandons ship with a few months left, you can't just go pluck someone else from their country, put them into the process at the last minute, and select them above someone else who has been in the process. No, he did not. This is false. And the assertion that a replacement can be "named" misconstrues the realities of the process. To begin with, when Clattenburg retired from the EPL, he remained on the FIFA list from England. In fact, he did one final Europa League game while his international status seemed in doubt. There were discussions and questions about whether or not he would attempt to go to the World Cup (or if Collina would select him) without him working in a domestic league (or with him working in the Saudi league). Once that got sorted out, the question then became whether or not Atkinson could replace him and the answer was "no," because he is leaving the FIFA list and FIFA has apparently maintained the position that 46 year olds will not be selected for the World Cup, even if they are FIFA eligible. So then what? Next on the pecking order are Taylor and Oliver. Neither was involved in the WC selection process. Neither are UEFA Elite referees. You have half a dozen UEFA Elite referees, who have been working the UCL for years and have much more international experience than Oliver or Taylor, who are being left home from Russia because the process is that cut throat. You're arguing that Oliver or Taylor should parachute in at the last minute and, let's say, displace Mazic? Turpin? Skomina? Which selected UEFA referee does Taylor or Oliver have better international credentials than? Oh, and let's point out that both Eriksson and Kassai (no matter what you think of the latter referee) both got left home and they are two of the most experienced referees in the world right now. I'm sorry, but England doesn't have a referee at the World Cup because Mark Clattenburg took his ball and went to Saudi Arabia. He was a top 3 UEFA referee, if not #1. Oliver might be there one day, but he's not close right now. He's in the 15-20 range at best, with Taylor probably right behind him (or slightly ahead internationally, on a given day). Neither warrants inclusion at the World Cup. Atkinson, who has been an Elite referee for years and worked a knockout match at the last EUROs, is a different story. If he was eligible, he could have filled Clattenburg's absence with ease. Such a swap would have been analogous to the Durkin for Elleray swap that you cite. Because Durkin and Elleray were both experienced UEFA officials at that point, coming off the heels of Gallagher working EURO 1996 (think of Gallagher being Webb, Clattenburg being Elleray, and Durkin being Atkinson). That leads me to another reason why Hackett's implication is asinine. If England not having a World Cup referee shows things are terrible, would that mean things would be fine if Clattenburg was still around and going to the World Cup? Oh, and given he did the UCL and EURO finals in 2016 (and England got TWO referees at the EUROs!), I'm sure Hackett believed everything was fine in 2016, too. Give me a break. Sorry for the rant here, but the whole thing is so transparently stupid and Hackett knows better. Did Durkin actually not do well or did he just not have the pedigree to land a QF appointment? I mean, we're only talking about 7 possible matches and this was toward the end of an era where politics played a big role. Also note that Mark Warren was AR on the big France-Italy QF and AR on the WC Final itself, so it's not like English refereeing got shutout in 1998. It may not be only Hackett complaining about the PGMOL, but he's one of a select few who makes money off such complaints. Honest analyses of referee performances, including warranted criticism, is one thing. But Hackett is part of a cottage industry of former referees who publish videos and write clickbait articles at the expense of the referees who have followed in their footsteps. He and his ilk ought to be embarrassed. Shorter version: Hackett should get off my lawn.
@MassachusettsRef Beat me to to it. Hackett's claims are laughable and frankly insulting to current English referees. Bear in mind that Hackett was in charge of EPL referees when these infamous decisions happened... There probably might have been worse decisions, but the point stands that referees, since the beginning of the sport have made mistakes and will continue to do so. A poor or non-existent free kick or a goal allowed for offside is not a sign that "standards are slipping" or that they are not in shape. (the guy almost died and only a caution I believe was shown) (currently the head of PGMOL) I could go on and on. Could EPL refereeing be better? Possibly. I certainly don't think the group is as strong as four or five years ago when they had Clattenburg and Webb (two of the best referees in the world the past 15 years). But to say that the refereeing 10 to 15 years ago was better is just absurd or that the set up is some amateur hour country club is insulting to the guys that train week in and week out. Also, the "we don't have a referee at the World Cup because our top candidate was more interested in collecting checks for our stupid website so the standards must be dropping" is asinine. When Hackett was in charge English referees accomplished nothing internationally either in the Champions League or World Cups and Euros. Mike Riley represented England at the Euros in 2004 and had a forgettable tournament. Graham Poll went to the World Cup in '06 and committed one of the biggest blunders in World Cup history and turned himself into a laughingstock overnight. Was that a sign that standards were slipping? @Pierre Head Comparing an English referee attending the World Cup in 1998 and attending now is frankly night and day. That was in a different millennium! Busacca in an interview said that the selection process for a World Cup basically starts the minute the previous World Cup ends. The selection process is so much more thorough and detailed than in 1998. You're comparing apples and oranges. I'm pretty sure in 1998, that was not the case. It might as well have been like picking referees for a local state cup match or youth regionals. FIFA in 1998: "You available to do games this weekend?" Elleray: "Sorry can't, have to grade papers. I'll find you a replacement. He's capable" FIFA: "Thanks." What happened in 1998 or in 2006 when FIFA, at the last minute, replaced Mejuto Gonzalez with another Spanish referee due to he or his ARs failing a fitness test is not gonna happen anymore. I don't believe. At least from a UEFA perspective. There are just too many quality referees and guys that have invested too much time to allow someone who wasn't in the selection process for two/three years to skip ahead. If Mateu Lahoz fails his fitness test or can't attend, there won't be a Spanish referee at the World Cup. It will go to Kassai or Errickson. I could, though, see it happen for a CONCACAF or CONMEBOLreferee. If the Mexican referee fails the fitness test, they might have to go with Mexico's number two. Same thing for Brazil. Those two regions don't have as a quality of pool of referees as Europe where if one of your main countries can't field a referee, you would have a capable replacement from a lesser country.
Right. And in those cases, there were referees from those countries (Mexico and Brazil) who took part in the pre-selection process fully (Garcia) or to an extent (Sampaio) so the replacement would make sense not just as a domestic swap, but as a "next-in-line from that continent." Garcia is the Atkinson and Eriksson of Mexico all rolled into one referee!
All I can say here is "WOW!" I guess this has touched a pretty sensitive nerve. Almost the equivalent of saying something negative about someone's religion or politics! Who would have thought that the selection of referees for the World Cup would elicit such fervor? And I should point out that although it seems that the arrows are aimed at me here, I was just the messenger. Although in his defense, BTW, Hackett did have a rather good career as a referee, FA Cup Final, Olympics, U-20 WC, and Euros. He didn't go to the World Cup though, Courtney was selected twice (86 & 90) during his time. He later was GM of PGMOL, and seriously improved the program, probably responsible for the development of Webb, Atkinson and perhaps Clattenburg. Also put Poll in here, since, his 3 card trick notwithstanding, he was also considered one of the top referees in the world at the time. With his publications and lectures, I would hasten to add that he has done more for refereeing than almost anyone else, including everyone who frequents this board. @RedStar91 I am surprised you didn't include video of the infamous Man U-Arsenal match that he refereed that had the huge fight with almost all players involved. And inventing "amateur hour country club" together with your ridiculous script of the Elleray situation is more suited to discussions in the referee tent at a local tournament and won't help you to be taken seriously on this board. PH
Hi from frigid London! We went to Chelsea v. Swansea at the Bridge last night which saw Antonio Conte get sent from the touchline to the stands over a missed corner kick/goal kick decision. My referee training made me look at the assistant referee (I was a 100 yards away from the ball) as it went out. He stood stock still. The referee waited. Nothing, and then decided goal kick. I later saw the replay. It was a corner by a wide margin. Just a miss. But, who was in the middle of the bench argument? None other than Lee Mason. Uneventful match. And Morata falls pretty easily. Swarbrick had a stroll for most of the match.
I guess at the highest level, they have forgotten how to read the players' reactions in this situation....
The other half of my EPL doubleheader for the week (and trip) is over. Here was my day: long train ride from London to Liverpool because of extensive delays due to overhead wire issues. Taxi to Goodison, walk around the entire place, great seats in the Park End up high with a great view. Anither win for my team. (I’m now 3-0 lifetime!) and another rather easy game for our referee, Chris Kavanagh, who was officiating his 5th PL match of his career. AR1,Gary Beswick, had a really unique style at free kicks where the defense was holding the 18. He got down really low, almost into a crouch to look along the line. He raised his flag for one OS off that type of crouch. 2-0 to the Toffies and another long train ride back to London! A great trip. Saw The Killers on Tuesday, Chelsea on Wednesday, a new play Thursday, and Everton on Saturday. I’m going to take a few days off next week to recover.
Match weeks 16 & 17 Saturday 9 December West Ham v Chelsea Referee: Anthony Taylor Assistants: Peter Kirkup, Stuart Burt Fourth official: Graham Scott Burnley v Watford Referee: Lee Probert Assistants: Simon Beck, Andy Garratt Fourth official: Andre Marriner Crystal Palace v AFC Bournemouth Referee: Kevin Friend Assistants: Ian Hussin, Derek Eaton Fourth official: Oliver Langford Huddersfield v Brighton Referee: Stuart Attwell Assistants: Eddie Smart, Andy Halliday Fourth official: Mike Jones Swansea v West Brom Referee: Mike Dean Assistants: Simon Long, Daniel Cook Fourth official: John Brooks Spurs v Stoke City Referee: Roger East Assistants: Adrian Holmes, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Paul Tierney 17:30 Newcastle v Leicester Referee: Neil Swarbrick Assistants: Scott Ledger, Richard West Fourth official: Lee Mason Sunday 10 December 12:00 Southampton v Arsenal Referee: Bobby Madley Assistants: Stephen Child, Marc Perry Fourth official: Graham Scott 14:15 Liverpool v Everton Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Lee Betts, Adam Nunn Fourth official: Martin Atkinson 16:30 Man Utd v Man City Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Gary Beswick, Simon Bennett Fourth official: Jonathan Moss Tuesday 12 December 19:45 Burnley v Stoke Referee: Mike Jones Assistants: Mark Scholes, Simon Long Fourth official: Michael Oliver 20:00 Crystal Palace v Watford Referee: Lee Mason Assistants: Ian Hussin, Matthew Wilkes Fourth official: Simon Hooper 20:00 Huddersfield v Chelsea Referee: Andre Marriner Assistants: Simon Beck, Scott Ledger Fourth official: Paul Tierney Wednesday 13 December 19:45 Newcastle v Everton Referee: Martin Atkinson Assistants: Stephen Child, Adrian Holmes Fourth official: Andy Madley 19:45 Southampton v Leicester Referee: Chris Kavanagh Assistants: Gary Beswick, Sian Massey-Ellis Fourth official: Roger East 19:45 Swansea v Man City Referee: Anthony Taylor Assistants: Lee Betts, Peter Kirkup Fourth official: Lee Probert 20:00 Liverpool v West Brom Referee: Paul Tierney Assistants: Constantine Hatzidakis, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Neil Swarbrick 20:00 Man Utd v AFC Bournemouth Referee: Graham Scott Assistants: Adam Nunn, Richard West Fourth official: Mike Dean 20:00 Spurs v Brighton Referee: Bobby Madley Assistants: Simon Bennett, Marc Perry Fourth official: Kevin Friend 20:00 West Ham v Arsenal Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Eddie Smart, Harry Lennard Fourth official: Craig Pawson
Two derbies this weekend. Both go to FIFA officials. With Man U v. Man City having huge implications for the rest of the table (and season) huge match for Oliver. If I'm not mistaken Oliver will also be coming off a champions league match midweek too. Also there are 4 new names as fourth officials. Oliver Langford, John Brooks, Simon Hopper and Andy Madley. Looks like PGMOL might be looking at promotion for the 2018/19 campaign. On a side note I wonder if Andy Madley is related to Bobby Madley.
Phil Neville said Dominic Calvert-Lewin should not have been given the penalty kick that let Rooney tie it at 1. There was a little contact, but why did Neville say that Calvert-Lewin running away from the goal should be a factor? Running away from the goal affects DOGSO (which wasn't an issue as no card was given) but not if a penalty kick should be awarded.
Because announcers say stupid things? I don’t think it was a penalty, but Lovren was utterly stupid to put himself in a position where it could have been called.
Lovren did get a yellow anyway, but I think it was for dissent. BTW, it was a penalty! Right, Pierre?