Post-Match USMNT vs. Uruguay 9/10

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by largegarlic, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    The big difference between your view of experimentation, and Berhalter's, is that his involves tactical experimental and the potential for improvement in the play of players and team cohesion.

    And yours is pretty much just roster experimentation.

    Berhalter isn't wildly inconsistent. He is just focusing on completely different parts of the game. And he clearly fundamentally believes that he can improve player performance within his framework.

    He also, like every coach, isn't as reactive to single games as a fandom is.
     
  2. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    If our team doesnt take Canada serious, it will be due to poor preparation by scout/coaching staff.

    Canada has enough attacking threat and pace to trouble our back line. There weakness appears to be cb and the backline generally.

    I dont trust GBs player evaluation ability. Some of the repeat selections are just baffling. We do have the players to beat Canada, true.
     
  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think you have to take everyone's perspective as one person's with all the comes wit it, but I prefer the longer form of the podcast interview. Everything is just more honest, in depth and clear.

    Yes, but one thing I will give Scuffed is this: they usually know their own biases. And I find their analysis really interesting in the sense that it always has me thinking about something another way. Few hot takes and they often try to see the other side.

    As for youth, I was very pro-youth about seven months ago. But the ups and downs are very real.

    The biggest problem of many in 2018, and the biggest problem we had now is that our good players got old before our new strong generation had a chance to grow up.

    I wonder now if it will be in time.

    I don't get Lovitz at all, either.

    I think that's a great question to ask. And properly asked, I think it could be an illumnating answer. I do wish they'd ask something like that.

    A reasonable take. Much more reasonable than the calls that Berhalter was an idiot for playing Dest at LB. I wonder what Dest would say to those things? Given he's a high level athlete, I bet he's happy to get a shot to prove himself rather than making excuses as to why he got nutmegged.

    Jozy should be a the #1 for now. Josh is the #2 and I think with more PT he can seize the #1.

    While I don't think Zardes belongs anywhere here, I also am not as upset over his PT with Jozy and Josh out. But I don't think there's a clear #3 that needs minutes right now. I probably would place a wager on Mason Toye out of everyone.

    I'm not a Zardes supporter; if Bobby Wood or Sabbi (who I'd have liked to see) or whomever was called in, great. But I also don't think they are clear upgrades that need minutes. So I'll get worked up over Sargent, but someone has to show me something before I'd be that angry over Toye going to the U23s.

    [quote[I think I come from the opposite side of this politicized era in the USMNT (in the sense that I think there are major problems that still exist) but I appreciate that you're logical and acknowledge that things aren't all good. I hope you see that I do the same to acknowledge they are also not all bad. I think this roster was a step in the right direction. I'm looking forward to these next two windows and seeing if more worthy experiments will be tried.[/QUOTE]

    I enjoy talking to people with different perspectives, learning things and sometimes changing my mind. Just as long as there's logic there and a willingness to honestly engage.

    It's been hard in the USMNT fanbase at times because there's a negative filter that dominates.

    I think there are many things the USSF could do better, to be honest. They've got problems -- we may or may not agree on what they are.

    But I think the US is also trying to accomplish something difficult -- and I don't think people give enough credence to the fact that the US is a truly unique situation in the soccer world. This isn't easy stuff.

    And no matter what people say, there's still a heavy dose of "We're the US, we should be winning everything" in the common perspective.
     
    Pegasus and UncagedGorilla repped this.
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Doyle revisits question he asked of Atlanta at season's start: What formation would they play.https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/09/12/armchair-analyst-one-big-question-each-mls-team-revisited

    I remarked about how Atlanta is a 352 team because guys like Gressel make it a dynamic formation for them. I noticed the same thing about Toronto. Toronto had their GOAT season playing 3 in the back which took full advantage of Morrow's dynamic play in the final third. while protecting Bradley a little. Anyway, here is what Doyle says re Atlanta today:

    What it should have been: What formation will Frank De Boer have his team play and will there be an outright player mutiny in the middle of the season?

    Atlanta's season, with regard to their formation, really has been some sort of Ouroboros that snaked its way through everything before ending up back where they started: In a 3-4-2-1. Everything has changed over the course of the season, but everything has also kind of stayed the same, and they just had an August that any team in league history would envy.

    Coming back to the 3-4-2-1 – which at the start of the season didn't seem to suit anybody – has been a big part of solving their problems, and it sure looks a lot more natural now than it did in March. That's made it easier to play, and thus easier to win, and as is always the case, winning has solved a lot of the issues that seemed existential when the team wasn't winning. And thus the Five Stripes staved off the mutiny that sure did look like it was brewing by the end of July.

    Tata was big on fullbacks and got a lot of bang for his buck out of them. Egg seems stuck on Cannon because he defends. He wants to pass out of the back but doesn't understand that you need both cb's to pass in a 2 cb formation. Imagine Miles, Miazga and Brooks/Ream playing together. Miles is still young but looks like somebody who will come good. Richards is in the waiting room. Apparently Glad is coming on strong lately.

    In the meantime, our options at the 6 are slim. It's Adams or who? We also have to bear in mind that Adams is good on the ball in the final third. Edit: note that Adams had his star turn with Leipzig playing with 3cb's.

    when you zoom out and look at the landscape for USMNT, it looks like a 352 to me, as long as the wb's prove out when we try the system, i.e. Arriola, Dest, Lima, TT,Gressel and whomever I might have missed.
     
  5. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    @gogorath I'd also be curious to hear your 23 for an important set of games if you have time to compile it. I don't think we're all that far apart as a fan base other than a few outliers. I'll play then I have to go to a meeting.

    GK - Steffen, Horvath, J. Gonzalez
    LB - Lichaj, A. Robinson
    LCB - Brooks, Ream
    RCB - Miazga, Long
    RB - Yedlin, Dest
    6 - Adams, Morales
    8 - McKennie, Pomykal
    10 - Lletget, Holmes
    RW - Pulisic, Morris
    LW - Weah, Arriola
    CF - Altidore, Sargent

    I think that's a pretty good setup for Gregg's system. It has a solid back four plus a 6 who can shield them. I think being able to keep and win back the ball is more important than the mythical long diagonal pass and I believe that will prove to be true when we get to see it. It's hard for me to imagine a front 5 of Pulisic, Altidore, Weah, Lletget, and McKennie struggling to score especially when you have guys like Adams and Yedlin who can contribute and Brooks or Ream to help beat a press.

    The other part to consider is age. I've got a couple 30+ guys being Ream and Lichaj plus Altidore who is about to turn 30. I have a few "prime age" guys between 24-29 being all the keepers, Brooks, Miazga, Long, Yedlin, Lletget, Holmes, Morales, Morris, and Arriola. 12/23 are prime age right now and only Morales is close to joining the 30+ group. There is still a lot of youth on the team including 4 of our 6 most advanced players. I'm okay with that. I think youth is better served up front than in the back.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  6. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #206 juvechelsea, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
    There is a lot of process talk. That talk emphasizes the system as the process. To me I would revert to an approach closer to what Sarachan was doing, where the personnel is the process for now. I want to know which players can Play Ball. I want to figure out 23-30 or so of them who play well consistently. Who are my ballers. Only then would I bother with system. I feel like that process got aborted this year. The system tail is now wagging the dog, and plus Berhalter feels pressured to arrive at an end game even though he has barely been on the job many months.

    We are now to Games That Count. But there are serious Games That Count -- qualifiers -- and then there's Gold Cup and LoN, which "count" but are not the end of the world. I would take some LoN risks in service of being better for next year. Or we can follow the Berhalter plan and settle on LoN people ("important set of games" -- are they though???????????? is LoN really that big a deal????????), and then figure out later in LoN semis/final or qualifying that some of those deemed reliable actually cannot handle this. and then qualifying is imminent. this is how we handled last cycle. we are basically repeating that approach. it's a false equation of conservatism with the best chance to win. does anyone really believe we are settling upon the best XI or 23 right now???? then how is that the best chance to win?????? be serious now.

    rather than assuming i get what is going on, and increasingly settling on a set of idealized favorites, i would have been running sets of players through camps, like last year, trying to find the ones who played well. the ones who did, would stay. the ones who didn't, would go. other than we are obsessed with TRYING to win everything, is LoN really so important to end looking around? and enough with TRYING. you haven't gotten to the endgame until TRYING = WINNING. we clearly aren't there.

    thing being, how much are we really WINNING with the safety approach?? oh, we need to go back to the well, we need safety here. how safe is we already didn't qualify???????????????? it's theoretical safety -- conservatism -- over practical safety -- WHO MAKES ME WIN. WHO PLAYS WELL. Practical safety involves actual work to find the good ones. theoretical safety tends to avoid such work and hope.

    i'll go into the list of people i would want to look at later, and i would go ahead and preface them by saying i am not assuming they are better. as with the recent spate of U20s, some will stick, some will need work, some will suck. but the point is also i am not assuming they are worse. everyone gets their chance. the best players stay. the idea is to identify more holmes, m. robinson, pomykal, etc., good looking players who can shove crap out. iterative process until we -- having looked widely -- arrive at 30 players who play well. then we can more seriously act like relying on players is our best chance to win -- not because we trust in conservatism, but because the players already proved themselves and were chosen for doing so. then we can start acting like games are that "important." they are the further test of DID I PICK THE RIGHT PEOPLE. they can also begin to serve as the system process. but i don't know what idiot starts his job and before looking at the player pool just starts right up with process overload. among other things, don't waste your time on people who won't stay. but also you don't even know who you are dealing with.

    obviously that process needs to end at some point, and i would have handled it where this past year and a half we were trialing people, gold cup would have been a tryout for interesting players rather than a stage for the obvious, this fall we would be bringing back players who had stood out in the trial period, and next spring would be when we focused on a specific roster and playing the system with them.

    right now, not only is the system under construction, but at position after position, perhaps half of the roster or more, it's like, does this guy even belong on the team? that's because you skipped to the systemic end game without testing the individual pieces first.

    if you start with the pieces first, you can at least trust more in the pieces. and the thing about that is if the system is buggy but the pieces well chosen, KLINSMANN pre-Brazil, then you just slide over to some other formation and tactics. but if you push a buggy formation, and then your favorite idealized players to fit it, and then neither work.......Klinsmann last cycle.

    what have you accomplished with this time??? we have been eliminated for 2 years now and have a semi-functioning approach to the game played by about half a team worth of decently chosen players themselves often not exposed to competition to ensure they are the best.
     
    UncagedGorilla repped this.
  7. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    think of it like HS soccer. you just graduated more than half the lineup in the senior class, from a team that was eliminated without making out of district to the playoffs. there is no undoing that. you can rotely promote up the upperclassmen from the JV, or the varsity bench. but you weren't that good a team to start with. and there may be a reason an upperclassman was on the JV, or the varsity bench ("Trapp" who somehow never broke in at 26 now). at that point, i would be very interested in new students, in freshmen, in the best players off the JV regardless of class. in the players i wanted to play on varsity but had to platoon. that's really where the team might change.

    if i just sit there and promote the juniors and the sophomores in descending age order, even if there is a freshman or new student rumored to be better......don't be surprised if you still suck. because you are confusing age and supposed experience with quality.

    the best CONSENSUS players on the US right now are 20 (adams and pulisic) and 21 (McKennie). the two best routinely chosen keepers, to me, are 24 (horvath and steffen). and in doing that i left out the 18 and 19 year olds about whom there are debates and stuck to the ones we all agree on. there are no 30 year old overlooked options. [there are some closer to 25, but not the ones this coach likes to use.] based on what i just saw, if these players are ever challenged in their leadership, it will be from below, not from old farts above. don't fight your own pool.

    [that being said, i think there are older players like AJ and Lichaj who could maybe help. i just when i have done this list before, it leans young and we all know it.]
     
    UncagedGorilla repped this.
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

    Here's an idea for the hyper atomists among you.

    What kind of set-up and/or complementary player gets the most out of your super stars?

    Teams like Argentina, Portugal, get this problem all the time, of course.

    If we think of Adams and Pulisic as two players we want to maximize, how do we do that? These are young players. It's easier with Jozy, say. He's pretty well known now and we saw he thrived ok in Egg's system. How about Sargent? He's young too. People automatically assume he's a 9 like Jozy. Jozy took a long time to get where he is today.

    When you look at Pulisic run thru midfield, it seems that he gives to Nats what Almiron gave to Atlanta. Almiron didn't play on the wing.

    When you look at Adams at Leipzig 2018/2019 version with Marsch, you'll see he played with 3cb's, 2 mobile forwards in Poulsen and Werner. Is McKennie really the guy you want to maximize Adams' skills? Morales?

    i.o.w., who are your key players and what is the system you would devise to get the most out of those players? If Brooks is a key skill because he can pass out of the back at a high level, how do you maximize this skill?

    What does any of this have to do with Egg's rigid system? Probably nothing which is the real problem at this point.
     
    DHC1 and UncagedGorilla repped this.
  9. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    So, it's a fun exercise for me at least. I always go back to how we played under Dave Sarachan in the Portugal 2017 friendly as sort of the template for how I think the US should play. We had a very strong, defense first, backline and a destroyer at the #6 position. Our midfielders had a nice blend of skill, athleticism, and technical ability. Our forward (Sapong) was a capable hold-up player with enough speed to keep the defense honest. Our approach to the game was pretty straight-forward. Basically defense win the ball and offense get it forward and we have enough talented players that have some level of creative license. The versatility of the attackers created several ways to be dangerous. The outside backs can join the attack when they feel like it. For me, that is a recipe for national team success when you have guys with as diverse of backgrounds as we do. Keep it simple, talented, and complementary. The starting lineup I threw out there could play that "system" and play it well with minimal time together. Nice little tweaks and adjustments based off opponents but nothing wholesale. Adams, Pulisic, Brooks/Ream, and Weah are the keys to this team and who I would expect the game to flow through.

    BUT, I also think the lineup I listed could play in Gregg's system better than the guys currently playing it. Let me tell you some specific things that I think work within it:
    • Lichaj behind Weah. Lichaj isn't great going forward, especially on the left, but he is an excellent defender and an outside back by trade. Weah isn't the best at tracking back and would prefer to play almost inside forward. Those roles work well together. I'm fine with Lichaj being stuck in space against a good winger, not so much with Ream and Lovitz. That's why Arriola has been necessary but for me, he's a late-game defensive sub.
    • Pulisic at RW - I personally believe it's his best position. We don't have any good crossers of the ball from the right side. Giving him the ability to playmake from out wide where he's less likely to get crowded out and put crosses and slotted balls in to Altidore, McKennie, and Weah is a recipe for success.
    • The CB pairing - I think having one of Ream or Brooks at LCB does a lot to keep a press honest. If one of them feels the defense overcommitting and can put a well-placed ball into the path of Pulisic or Weah, we're off and running with quality. But they're both slow so their partner is important. I'm thinking Robinson could be that ideal partner in short order since both Long and Miazga have deficiencies in that role.
    • An actual 6, 8, 10 center mid. This is a big deal and something we didn't do against Mexico and it showed. In my opinion, we've yet to play a real 6 under Gregg. I think McKennie would look a lot better in a more free role when he doesn't have to worry about covering for a minus defender. I also think Lletget or Holmes would have an easier time with Adams behind them. In the Portugal game McKennie played as more of a 10 with Williams behind him and he scored the goal.
     
    largegarlic repped this.
  10. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gogorath has swilled down a can of Red Bull, and now when he puts out his "Trust Me, All is Swell With General Egg" riff he can stretch it out for two, instead of one, short paragraphs.
    But, Trust Me, Gogorath, when it comes to General Egg all that is swelling is your verbiage.

    Next time see what you can do with General Egg's version of "You really gonna believe your lyin' eyes??" You know, that magnificently Gogorothian spiel :
    "“I see where the narrative is going now, it’s ‘Why are we playing the way we’re playing?’” General Egg said. “The second is, ‘We don’t have the players to do it.’ That’s what all of you guys are thinking. And to me, it’s about developing players. We’re making progress. That’s not going to be your narrative right now, and I understand that. But internally, we believe we’re making progress.”
     
  11. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Sometimes I wonder if people just troll here to get attention.
     
  12. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There's all kinds of trolls. Attention is a new one for me. I'm trying to wrap my head around that one. Tolstoy said all happy families are the same; all unhappy families are unhappy in their own way.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    If it's right now, and without knowing the opponents:

    GK Steffen / Horvath / Guzan
    DEF Yedlin / Lima / Brooks / Long / M. Robinson / Dest / Ream
    MID Adams / McKennie / Pulisic / Pomykal / Holmes / Bradley / Morales
    ATT Altidore / Sargent / Weah / Morris / Arriola / Boyd

    I'm not sure I'm in love with this full selection, so I could be convinced.

    I like Pulisic in the middle in general. You look at this and it completely makes sense to move him to the wing -- we have more question marks there, I think, but I want creativity in the 10. And I don't think Holmes, Lleget can do it. And Paxton ... man, I'd love to the pull the trigger but can't quite yet. Plus, he can double off the wing if we need.

    Boyd will be more effective coming off the bench, and I'd debate being kind of insane and bringing Uly Llanez instead. I would gamble on Weah on the LW, Morris on the RW.

    Jozy starts but I have a planned sub at 45. I tell both him and Sargent to commit their energy to a half game -- no pacing.

    Adams starts at the 6 if the game's today, and Bradley is on the bench. I have a soft spot for the RB experiment, but if WCQ started tomorrow, I have to play it safe.

    There's a lot of flexibility here. I'm probably gambling at fullback, so maybe Bradley or Morales stays home and someone like Lichaj or Hollingshead makes it. That's probably the smart move, but I like having both Bradley and Morales depending on the opponent.
     
    UncagedGorilla repped this.
  14. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Complaining about one of the best prospects that the US has ever produced comes off as trolling.

    At some point a person should probably ask themselves if they should believe their eyes if they keep mistaking steak for turds.
     
  15. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    USMNT to consider

    GK

    J Gonzalez
    Miller
    Frei

    D

    Moore
    Richards
    Lichaj
    Toljan
    R. Laursen
    Payne
    Pierie
    Gloster

    M

    Mendez
    Holmes
    Acosta
    Green
    Gall
    K. Lankford
    A. Sabanadzovic
    M. Miljevic
    L. Acosta (eventually)
    Gressel (eventually)
    E. Alvarez (fight for)
    Tillman (when healthy)

    F

    AJ
    Amon
    Wood
    Weah
    Nova
    Soto
    Toye
    B. White
    Lewis
    Sabbi
    Siebatcheu
    Wright

    I left off people already in camps recently

    I'd pick the more interesting ones off the list and include 5-10 of them at a shot at the back end of each call sheet, give them the proverbial 15-30 and if they look interesting, run with it.

    in terms of starting people, we need wingbacks, backup keepers, and mids. i would risk starting some people.
     
  16. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    you didn't read my piece. he's so far off he clearly doesn't grasp what talent he does and doesn't have. he may think he is playing fits for a style but many of them don't even belong in camp, much less playing time.

    i will grant that my approach is more outright audition but we have some positions where no one we've tried looks any good. i also think that part of his game is not to scoop too deeply in the dip lest people realize he has tried to scoop. i think the dip he made is mediocre and he needs to taste some other dip to even see the error of his ways. half the problem is by claiming many people aren't ready he doesn't have to consider them nor be judged by how they make his people look, eg, Pomykal comes in and dribbles defenders who have stymied his colleagues for over an hour.

    the USMNT has a bad "assuming its conclusion" issue of conservatism. we assume who we should play and then require months of disproof -- which takes you up to qualifying -- to see the light. if you instead require the proof upfront, and only later settle into the chosen, then the chosen by definition have already proved themselves, and i didn't just assume i'd picked right. this is why last cycle we still had problems at several positions, is we quit auditioning and trusted we had the answers. soccer games then said we hadn't but we left it so late it becomes a "security blanket" spiral. we need new people but it's qualifying so we can't because it's risky. but at that point it's as or more risky to be stuck. so avoid that and do it now. or we can want to do it later and then figure out we're stuck.
     
  17. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #217 juvechelsea, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    a dominant team can be more conservative because it's "what do you offer me i don't already have." a mediocre non-qualifying team doesn't merit that arrogance from either an objective results/table position or manifest talent perspective.

    we have the arrogant attitude of a dominant side without the results or proven talent. at a minimum level all i'd ask is instead of lovitz or baird try some different people at the periphery and here's a list. but at a broad level i feel like we failed to really figure out who the best players in the pool are, so badly, that we need more in the nature of a cattle call approach. he needs to see how far off he is. he then needs to bring back the ones who show up his guys.

    i think there is a real danger if we stay blinkered and incremental this is not set up to automatically qualify, and that at the point that will dawn, like last time, the risks of both missing out and of trying anything new both stack up high. other than we obsess about winning all the time, LoN is not that big a deal, and being lined up right for qualifying should be the bigger goal. but we are concerned about two things, winning and money, and so much so we don't even see we are getting worse at the first which will eventually undermine the second.

    i expect we will, as we did with GC, the playoff game, and CA 2016 last time, be up our own butt and very conservative, achieve modest results in the games that count, not exactly win, which should itself disprove this is the winning formula, ignore that, barrel right into qualifying half baked just like last time. we are that arrogant and self assured. i think then CR and Honduras will remain strong, Panama may fall off, but that would be the precarious 4th spot.
     
  18. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #218 juvechelsea, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    i have discerned the flaw in the snob approach. i believe the snob position 10 or so years ago was that we had plateaued and needed a more technical player to advance further. but the player i see today is only incrementally better than before on average, and we may even have fewer elite quality players. so we instead talk system. system a coach can control. however if the system is premised on already having those technical upgrades.......

    more pointedly, for a team that's supposedly interested in getting systemically more technical we start a lot of hard hat types.

    you set out to change the american player, and then didn't really do it that much. so you instead give us system. which isn't worth much without the right cogs to execute.

    suggests we got the second or third rate missionaries who don't know their bible that well really, but know enough to say jesus a lot. some people will chant jesus back. that doesn't make you a high level theologian and student of the scripture.

    also, after chastizing the supposedly cynical leaders of before, for perhaps not pursuing skill zealously, but organizing, and getting talent, and managing games, and getting results to a high point; we half heartedly pursue that skill while giving up the virtues that got results. to me failing at basic soccer coaching of organization on the field and getting results is a far bigger sin than "you could have been playing prettier when you tried to do so." and to me, germany, france, italy, the two are not diametrically opposed and the whole premise that one needs to veer from one to the other is false.
     
  19. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Super disappointed at the play of Boyd and Long, two guys I was hoping to be starters on this team. Boyd seems really tentative and seems to have lost that "flair" he had when he first came to the team. It's almost like he's afraid to try anything. I don't know.

    Long's current form is the worst I've seen him play in 2 years.

    I hope Dest chooses us, but there's nothing we can do now besides commenting American flags on his Instagram posts (I've been doing that). The fed did it's job. Not much more you can ask.

    Josh Sargent did not have a great game, but he's still better than Gyasi Zardes. Again, he did not have a great game.
     
  20. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we did well at inviting him, unfortunately, we looked very pedestrian, not a good way to show him we are competitive vs. the big teams like the dutch.
     
  21. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #221 juvechelsea, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    setting aside my reaction to his behavior, he's played for the US YNT for 3 years. he went straight from u20 worlds to 2 starts on a NT at age 18. that is about as red carpet as any team in the world can get. what is this whiny self loathing crap about we suck and didn't put on the best possible show?

    some of the self flaggelators might consider that this might be an agent cooked approach to create precisely the angst and eagerness that is happening, which otherwise an uncontested US U17 and U20 might not get as much. i wouldn't be surprised if we called up people like this just the same eg Alvarez. i doubt you hear about it every time because some would consider it confidential, or unseemly, to put nationality overtures on the street. i think you tend to hear about it when you lose a player and the team wants to act like it tried ("here was our due diligence, it's not our fault"), or you lose a player and he feels like it was forced ("i was interested but they never called"), or someone's ego gets involved (I am hot sh*t and x, y, and z all want me to play").

    in terms of this mutual dance, and it cuts both ways, did he look that great? I think we just saw precisely what it was. a decent but marginal player with some promise but some consrtuction work pushed his way up the queue by putting his otherwise uncontested nationality status back on the table. let me tell you who has been calling. whamo, right onto the field. and then he looks like he has talent but needs more work. we are who he has been playing for, and we are going to put him on a world stage far faster than holland. we might in about 5 years (at this rate) be exactly what he wants. he would be 23 then and have plenty of career to go. we may not even suck that bad now, and he'd be in the pool already. if that's not good enough, door B is over there.

    i could understand crying over rossi, subotic, if we lose alvarez. this is not that level, at least not yet.

    amusing thing to me is if you were really worried it would be like soto.
     
  22. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing I don't understand the last couple of years, as per debuts or re-debuts, how could you ever fault a guy like Morales for coming in and playing with 100% heart? Sure maybe he misplayed a few balls, but at least he was playing with passion and some damn grit. Has Trapp ever done that on ONE APPEARANCE for club or country? One time?
     
    Eighteen Alpha, btlove, yabo and 5 others repped this.
  23. Dr.Phil

    Dr.Phil Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How do you measure playing with heart? Are you saying Trapp doesn't care?

    Trapp is definitly not physical and I appreciated Morales standing up to the Mexican player.
     
    striker repped this.
  24. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    That's a good team. 18/23 of ours were the same players which is about what I expected.

    I guess you're using Ream as cover at LB and CB to get to 7 defenders on the roster?

    Boyd was a tough call for me. It basically came down to he and Pomykal for my last spot depending on where I played CP. I still think of Pom more as an 8 but I could be convinced otherwise. His ceiling is higher than Lletget and Holmes in my estimation.

    CP on the wing is somewhat due to depth but also because I just don't feel like we get any good service from the right side and if we have Weah, Altidore/Sargent, and McKennie all in and around the box, there's a good chance an accurate passer/crosser can lead directly to many goals. I don't see anyone else in our pool that can create from the right wing. I also think he can influence the game as much from there as anywhere because either a team will leave him isolated against a defender or shift over and I trust him to exploit either one of those situations.

    As someone who is adamantly against the Adams at RB experiment, I should say that my reason for opposing it is not tactical. I think it could work and would be interesting to try if our pool looked different. My issue is at RB we have Yedlin who despite what many people on here think, is still a top 6-8 player in our pool. No one we have played at the 6 is even top 15. If we don't have Adams at the 6, we have to drop wayyyy down in talent level whereas if we don't have Adams at RB, ideally we have Yedlin but even Cannon and hopefully Dest are more promising than our other options at the 6. If Morales had come in and crushed it at the 6 or Danny Williams was still in peak form, I'd say absolutely give it a go.

    I will be interested to see what happens with Lletget. I understand he's out of contract with the Galaxy at the end of the season. Maybe he will go back to Europe or get on a more functional team as a 10. He's always looked pretty good to me in a US shirt but doesn't seem to produce much for the Galaxy.
     
    gogorath repped this.
  25. GiallorossiYank

    GiallorossiYank Member+

    Jan 20, 2011
    NJ/Roma/Napoli
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trapp has no great physical qualities, I never feel like he's running hard or is a physical presence. The only thing he can do is play diagonal long balls for his club and some nice line breaking passes. How often does he do that for us? His turn and spray against Mexico was nice but its literally the only time I remember him doing anything.
     
    Winoman repped this.

Share This Page