Post-match: Portugal vs. USA

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by ussoccer97531, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Danny Williams has 23 caps for the US with 18 of them as a DM, including WCQ group starts v Jamaica and Guatemala where he was highly rated and WCQ Hex start v Honduras. He also has 4 of his first 5 caps at AMR.

    Williams does have a single 8 minute emergency sub appearance for Chandler at
    LB, 6 years ago in his 4th US cap

    DWill has played as a DM the last 18 matches he has played for the US since early 2012.
     
  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    We need a true DM more than yet another B2B CM, though.

    Williams moved from DM to B2B in Reading, and at that point became the fifth or so option in our overcrowded B2B field.

    Whether he deserved to be higher at that point, is debatable. I agree with Arena though, he had not shown anything extraordinary by the point of the call-ups.
     
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  3. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    It all depends on who's going to be the head coach.

    If it's an American/MLS based coach, then yes unfortunately the likes of Bradley, Jozy, Nagbe, etc. is going to be hanging around for a few more years.

    If it's a complete foreign coach that has no exposure to MLS/US soccer or any ties with those guys, I doubt it. You have 5 years to rebuild. I would love to see a young, ambitious, visionary coach comes in and blow this whole damn thing up and start from scratch.

    Based the new team on 3-4 key players that compete and perform regularly at the highest level, then start integrating those young 17-20 year old kids (both home and abroad). Give up opportunities to learn, gain experiences, and gel with each other. Those kids will be near their prime when 2022 rolls around.
     
  4. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The MLS/SUM marketing arm and its connection to the NT needs to be severed with a chainsaw.

    With McKennie, Gonzalez, Williams and now Parks looking like real options, that should be our focus, along with a guy like Roldan, which interestingly the MLS/SUM marketeers ignore.

    Not a single reason to every call in Bradley/Nagbe types ever again. It was that mentality which is the reason most of the above names won't play in a WC for 5 years.
     
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  5. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, we have your first part covered..."3-4 key players that compete and perform regularly at the highest level"..Pulisic, Brook, Yedlin and Mckennie. Younger 17-20...You have Adams, CCV, Miazga, J.Gonzales, Parks, Sargent, Weah. That gives you 10 almost a "sure bet" youngsters to make it. Sprinkle a few over 21+ players to complement and you are halfway there to a 23 team roster.
     
  6. ipass

    ipass Member

    Jan 2, 2015
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Agree 1000%
     
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  7. ipass

    ipass Member

    Jan 2, 2015
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Thanks, and maybe you should consider running for the USSF presidency. I'm not really joking.
     
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  8. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It was a friendly.

    People who know about soccer realize friendlies are made to experiment and try things, that results in them don't count.
     
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  9. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, in that case, our experimental side was better than their experimental side. Better?
     
  10. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    #485 Suyuntuy, Nov 21, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
    Yep. Saying we'd have easily qualified from CONCACAF with a team that tied Portugal B in a friendly is just insane, though.

    PS: That same day Nigeria played Argentina off the field in Russia in another friendly, beating them 4-2. They're not thinking they are candidates to win the WC because of it.
     
  11. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, this Argentinian team only made it in the last game of the qualifiers. I don't think they are going to go far in this WC.
     
  12. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I realize you're a status quo/nothing is wrong/Arena/Bradley/Altidore supporter, but how long does this last? Do you just want the "big gunz" and "Lions" to hold on for two more years? Are you Bruce's wife?

    This is like watching an SEC preseason football game and proclaiming "yeah, this team, the one I support, could beat Cape Cod Community College". Yes, obviously they could. Obviously a team of committed professionals used to fighting to earn their spots (wait, competition???) could beat T&T, made up of semi-pros and college players. And would have been able to qualify.

    But yes, there will never be a way to know, so at least you have that excuse going (until, of course, the team without Jozy/MB and some quality competition for spots qualifies easily from CONCACAF in a few years).
     
  13. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's very hard to take seriously someone who was praising a player without having watched him play at all (McKennie).

    No, I'm not pro-status quo. I'm anti-spazzism.
     
  14. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Your anti-spazzism was one of the traits that got us knocked out of the WC. well done?

    McKennie looks horrible now that I've seen him! We'd be booking tickets to Russia had my advice been taken. Now I've seen him play maybe 75 minutes total, and literally nothing has changed. So I guess good point, again? Casual soccer fan/BS poster required to see players a top 3 BL team value highly to discern whether he passes the amateur BS poster eye test and is capable of beating a team full of amateurs and college players! Or not.
     
  15. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Just out of curiosity, did you really think we were better? The claim wouldn't stand up to examination, imo, but I thought we were ok and learned a lot about our players. Portugal did too. It's all good.

    We couldn't hold possession, mainly because the mids were not capable of it against a Portugal B team. They defended well. So, you ask yourself, was defending well sufficient to conclude we were better than Portugal on this night.

    Tell me if you agree if I put it this way: If that were the friendly preceding a must win match against Trinidad, we would have learned to do better than playing Adams and Agudelo as outside mids in a 4141 with Acosta in cmid and Sapong as sole forward; however, we would have felt confident going with Yedlin, Miazga, Brooks, CCV in the back sans Horvath and with McKennie in cmid in front of Williams in dmid.
     
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  16. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought we fought well, we were supposed to lose by multiple goals. It was a pleasant surprise that we held our own. Not better or worst than the opponent.
    We didn't link up more than a couple of passes sequentially but it was expected for this group of kids that never played together in a regulation size field, for the past week they were only playing small side because they didn't have enough players.
    Well, this friendly had a lot of young ones missing besides the old guard.
    Pulisic, Wood, Ariola. If I was the coach, I would have brought JoGo, he was already doing well for months. Keaton Park was still an unknown, so I'm ok with him missing the T&T game. I don't think Agudelo or Sapon would have made it to this fictitious T&T game. I think McKennie would have been an improvement over Nagbe or Acosta and even Bradley. McKennie has been playing like this since last year when he first caught my eye. The major difference now, is that he is now playing with CONFIDENCE and that makes all the difference between a good player and an excellent player.
     
  17. Philly phan

    Philly phan Guest

    I think it is fantasy to think that since we tied a Portugal b team that we are ready to win the World Cup in 2022 with all of our wonderful young players. I think we should look at our results the past Ten years in Olympic qualifications, u17 results, and u20 results . This would give us a better picture of our talent level.
     
  18. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Going back 10 years is way too far. Those players, even if they were at the u17 level, would be in their early 30s by the time of the next World Cup we could be qualified for. And the age gets worse if you are talking about u20 or Olympic age players from 10 years ago. Cut that time in half, and you are moving closer to accuracy.
     
  19. Philly phan

    Philly phan Guest

    If you read my post correctly I said the "past ten years." We did not even qualify two of the last three olmypics.
     
  20. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    Does playing 1 position at club make one incapable of playing another at International level?

    The reason D Williams was moved down the pecking order is because he was a direct threat to Michael Bradley. He had some injuries with JK which prevented him from getting the opportunities. I can almost guarantee had JK stayed on we would have seen DW in the center of the park after the CR catastrophe. He was in form.

    Danny Williams has played dm throughout his career. Suggesting hes less capable than any of our current options is absurd.

    I disagree regarding the point that DW had not done anything of note. The Championship is a tougher league than MLS and he played a role in a campaign that almost led to promotion. He attracted premiership attention and later was sniped by a good coach who was promoted from the same league.

    At Huddersfield he has played as a dm in a 4231 since hes been introduced. Hes a versatile player but as he gets older his skill set is best utilized as a mobile dm. Not suggesting hes 'the one' but he deserved a legit shot last cycle, based on form alone.

    Who accomplished more, at club level, in the center of the park in our pool? In particular during this cycle. The lack of transparency is alarming with the whole Arena clan. I get protecting your own but this is just outrageous.
     
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  21. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why? most of the players that we are interested didn't even play in the U-20 tournaments because they were either not thought of much or their clubs wouldn't release them. If you are looking at the players that would be fillers for a national team, then yes, we are falling behind to other countries, in other words, our pool is shallow, compound that with a lower rate of coaches and you can see what we get outside of our elite players.
    I think this past friendly was just a good showing for our youngsters to hold their own against players that had at least a couple of years more of experience at a higher level of play. Our next WC won't happen for another 5 years, some of our filler players may become good players, some of our good players may become excellent players and some may fall off the wayside, is a common process.
     
  22. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    One thing I can't get over is how so many are saying this player or that player didn't get a fair chance because of the USSF conspiracy to protect Bradley. This conspiracy apparently includes both Arena and Klinsmann. I don't think I am remembering that Klinsmann dropped Bradley from the squad upon Klinsmann's initial hiring. After several games he decided, rightly or wrongly, that Bradley was a key player that he needed to have in the squad. The rest is history. It is one thing to say that Klinsmann and Arena were both wrong or that he kept his position far too long, he was over the hill, had lost his fire, was a terrible leader etc, but saying it was all part of a conspiracy it a bit too much in my opinion. To take it further, the belief held by some that he will hold back McKennie or (insert name here) because the conspiracy will continue is even more far fetched. If anyone is most vulnerable due to the results of the hex it is Bradley. He would probably be the easiest person to drop. If anything, it would be much easier for a coach to drop Bradley than it would be to play him. (even if he actually deserved it).
     
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  23. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not so sure. JK strikes me the type of person that once he gives up on you, that is it. Why? because it would mean that he was wrong in the first place. I think that is the reason he never gave up on Jozy even when Jozy was in a year-long funk, it would show that he was wrong choosing him.
     
  24. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I read it correctly. Did you read mine correctly? Going back more than 5 or 6 years, maximum, is silly. Going back THREE OLYMPICS, which you have just done, is ludicrous. That would put you all the way back to 2008, which if you were 22 or 23 at the time would make you 36 or 37 by the time of the 2022 World Cup. What the heck would players who are 36 or 37 at the time of our next potential World Cup tell us about the development of the players who would make up the bulk of a 2022 roster? Remember that the median WC age is approximately 27.5. And with the missing generation of players that was at the heart of us missing the 2018 WC, it is likely that our 2022 team will skew younger than that ... hich means you are reaching, tremendously. With the World Cup 5 years in the future, the development that we need to worry about would only go back about 5 or 6 years. Our most recent developers are going to have an overstated presence by 2022.
     
  25. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    Danny Williams was having knee problems for quite a while. It was a lingering problem. Perhaps JK felt he was not reliable and didnt pick him throughout the cycle. I can believe that.

    Im pretty certain JK would have at least gave him consideration with the form he was in. Especially after the Costa Rica game. Its plausible JK would have looked at all options in desperation.

    The options were limited upfront early in the second cycle. I cant really think of healthy strikers I would consistently pick over Jozy during this period. Sapong maybe. Wood came into the picture a bit later. Replace him with Dempsey most likely.

    Never been a big fan of JK as a manager. In this instance I feel Klinnsmann had pressure from within US soccer (Arena clan/MLS/IMG). At the very least an opposite force, if not undermining force.
     
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