Playing "UP"

What is the format? Are there practices?

 

the goal is to play with players with same skill level and not jeopardize safety. so playing up is fine if he can compete and not increase risk of serious injury with older players. the key at that age till 13-14 is technical ability/comfort on the ball, everything else including winning is secondary, if your focus is developing the best player your child can be.

 

Maybe these articles will help:

"Should a 7-Year Old Play on a 10-Year Old Team?" : http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/news/story.asp?story_id=3186

"Stifling the Development of the American Soccer Player": http://www.vysa.com/coaches/99579.html

And . . .

"Most U8/U9 players, even the top ones, are still developing skills and confidence, and playing every game against tougher and/or older opponents is not nearly as important as good training at this age level. As long as the best players are in a challenging training environment on a regular basis, they should still play recreational soccer. What is most important, is for the players to be able to express themselves in games and play with imagination and adventure, without fear of second-guessing or too-tough competition, so that they can taste success being creative at a relative young age.

Having this success at a young age ultimately plays a monumental role in confidence building. However, if players are only thrust into competitions that are tougher, or where they can no longer dominate and use all of their developing skills, this confidence will be stunted. If a player who is just mastering skills has not had a chance to succeed and build his/her confidence, then it could be devastating to move him/her up. Not only would it be devastating to this player's confidence, but also to his/her ongoing skill development as they will not attempt to perform difficult skills in the more overwhelming atmosphere as he/she would at their respective age level.

If their skills are not sufficient to do all what they hope to do with the ball during a more competitive game, they will likely get rid of the ball more quickly and not have the number of touches on the ball and number of experiences of success necessary to help him/her grow as a player."

- Massachusetts Director of Coaching

 

The fact he is playing up means that you are unable or unwilling to find an appropriate level team of his age. At 7, yes this is more of a possibility than a 10 year old not finding a team and being "forced" to play up to U13.

You stress his size, which IMHO is quite astonishing for his age - my U13 is 5'1" and 100 lbs., he has a teammate that is 4'6" maybe 80 lbs. and does very well. My U13 son dominates kids up to a foot taller than him, so don't mistake size for skill.

It would be much better to find teammates his age or a year older who are at his skill level. NO player learns from being "owned", even "occasionally". The fact that he can beat some 10 year olds doesn't matter, the important part is whether he is learning soccer.

Another point is that depending on where you are, if it is a travel team he may be prohibited from switching to full-sided with the rest of the team. At 7, he is most likely playing 2 years up, not three (U8 versus U10 team), so I would focus on getting him on an age-appropriate team. If it is a rec team, don't kid yourself that he is really "playing up".

What is the major reason he is playing up? Is it convenience (local or social connections) or skill? If it is skill, starts doing your homework on where he should be - it's tryout season. It sounds like there would be more than a few fall U9 teams that would appreciate him on their team.

 

I think it was Tiger Woods' dad who said he would always split time between playing up and playing with his own age group so he he could learn humility and remember how it feels to dominate. Makes sense.

 

You have a large 7 year old, my 10 year old is taller than most of his U10 team mates at 4'10" and maybe 80 lbs dripping wet. My son also played U10 at 7, but was one of the smallest kids (but not the smallest my any means) and more than held his own. Most challenging for him was not lack of technical skills, because he was one of the more technically skilled players on the team, but the social aspect of a 7 year old playing with 10 year olds. He stuck at it because it was still fun and he never was never "owned", still isn't against U12s, U13s and even U14s, so his skills progression has been steady. He plays in the U10s because state law prohibits him from playing up at U11 otherwise he would still be playing up. However, if as a 7 year old he was struggling and getting frustrated about the situation and was obviously not having fun, I would have found a younger team for him to play on. Confidence is very important to a young player's development, in my very uneducated opinion. I can't see how being "owned" can be doing any good for his development. Let him shine with players his own age or a year older.

 

i am a HUGE believer in "unless your kid is truely exceptional, they should play their own age".

now with that said, my daughter is moving to a new team and is playing up for the first time (other than in tournaments). She is a solid player but she is not "truely exceptional". i am breaking my own rule because i know these girls, parents and coach from her guesting with them over the last few years and they are a great, friendly group. they are not a "top team" like the one she is leaving for her age but there is still room for her to develop. right now, the "team" situation is more important than the "competitive" situation.

he holds his own, but some games he gets owned as parents i feel we should put our kids in the best situation we can find to help them to succeed. for me, this goes way beyond soccer. he should be doing more than holding his own. with his size and assuming he has the skills, he should be owning the opposing players most of the time. the more frustrated he gets, the more he will want to quit. i think the "it will make me a better player in the long run" doesn't mean much to a 7 year old. it wouldn't work for my 11 year old if she is not happy.

your son is playing up 3 flights? IMO, that is alot to ask of any kid, even a big one. my daughter is 11 , 5' and 95#. also when kids are bigger, people think they are older and expect them to act older. that can be tough too.

i'd find him a team closer to his age but in our area, we have a ton of options.

 

7 year old should play with other 7 year olds (maybe 8) 10 is too much, his development is being compromised because he is probabling losing confidence in those games where he is struggling. The more confidence he loses the worse he will be.
Just saying

 

Good luck, I have a 13 year old with little kid emotions, so I hear you!

 

Well done NewInTexas!!

 

At the same time, the coach that has a full squad of players playing up should have less pressure to focus on winning and more on development as the parents will understand the team is going already at a physical disadvantage.

 

Yes! A combination of games (town, club, school, friends) at different levels is best for the gifted player. They need to be challenged, dominate, experiment, and have fun. Almost all professional players played up when they were young and learned skills from the older players. People here who suggest a child should not play up really don't know what they are talking about or have never bothered to study how the best pro players got there. If a child is getting "owned" then this is not working. For best development, a player should be about in the middle or slightly above average. Best is this combined with another playing arena in which he/she dominates, and another when really challenged and willing to learn from more skilled players.

 

Very good point and it is a real issue if your kid is bigger. I second everything soccermom and tonyg writes.

Each kid is different, but it sounds like you made the right choice IMHO. I am also a firm believer that a kid should not play up unless he or she is dominating at that older age also. What Tiger’s dad did sounds like a good strategy although I would still favor not playing up very much unless your kid is the best player in the world like Tiger was.

Since my son played in an area where there was not a lot of high level competition, his club coaches would have him “practice up” with the older kids during skills practice. I would laugh sometimes when he would show up for small group practice and he was the only one who did not drive themselves. He would play at his own age group and do team practice with his own age group. When he was a U-little it was tough sometimes to get skill-appropriate training at clinics and day camps. I had to “be vague” about his age for him to get training.

One of the real problems with having younger kid play up is that developing a little bit of confidence is important. The young kid plays against other kids and does well, so he trains a little bit and does even better, which motivate him to train even more, which allows him to do even better. It is a self-reinforcing cycle of success. Unless your child is getting this from playing up all the time, it is not a good situation and can be self-defeating over time.

 

I'm torn on this whole issue. My son played up (just a bit) last year at age 4 in a U6 league, but really the U4 league was too slow. He ended up against kids that were 6 going on 7 and held his own just fine. It was the right level for him.

This year I left him at the U6 level at age 5 and it's been far too slow. He dribbles through everyone with ease and now I'm regretting not moving him up to U8. As coach, I typically ask the opposing coach if they'd like to exchange a player to make it fair and move him onto the other team. This makes it a bit more difficult, but he still scores with ease. He is almost 6, so I'll be moving him up to U8 this summer but from watching I get the impression he could have played that level last summer.

I agree with the idea of keeping your child at the right level, but that isn't necessarily based on age. He's average size and average speed compared to peers his age, but his peers don't have nearly the experience. He's so bored with the competition that he doesn't think he needs to practice - although talking about how Messi practices hard all the time to be really good helped that situation.

If the kid is bored playing with his peers and is asking to play up the next level, then what's wrong with that?

 

Maybe the ultimate cautionary tale of "playing up"

 

Absolutely nothing! It's like many issues in youth soccer in the U.S.--the pendulum swings one way, then the other. Right now the not very well thought out mantra is "don't play up". Being bored is the absolute worst thing for a young player who loves the game. Again, *every* world class player Messi, Rooney, Ronaldo, etc. played with older players all the time when they were growing up.

Perhaps "the don't play up" crowd can gives us one example, (just one!) of a world class player who always played against his age-peers while growing up?

 

Here is the issue I have with playing up, it depends on the kids age. One of the things that I took away from my F license course, was when the instructor went over child psychology at different ages and sexes. It stuck with me and I have always tried to coach with this in the back of my mind. Young kids (I figure up to about 7) can be fragile psychologically. They are easily intimidated. At 5 1/2 my son joined a U8 boys team. Technically he was average with the other kids. He was the youngest kid on a team of 7 and 8 year olds. First couple of games he was ok, but you could tell he was getting frustrated. Then one game he asked to come out and he told me that the other kids (opponents) were pushing him around. The contact was the same and didnt bother the 7 yo but he was getting scared. He started to hate going to practice or even playing. His skills started to deteriorate. His confidence on the ball was shot. Mind you this kid loved to play. Next season I put him back in our town rec program (playing against 5-6 yo...kids his own age). His skill (that he had all along) was evident. He dominated games completely, and his love for the game came back and he improved. Why, because these were kids his own age, he felt ok around them, his confidence returned. Then it dawned on me that it was because he was not afraid/intimidated. I had tried to rush his development because he was better and it backfired. That same coach ( a good friend) has his team playing up a year, and they have struggled. His theory is that the kids will improve and get better by playing against better competition. I don't see it. He was a HS coach, so I will say he knows better even though I disagree.
Every situation is different, but I think over all if a child is under 9 regardless of there talent, they should be playing age appropriate. Better to be a big fish in a small pond, then a small fish in a big pond who is hiding from predators. Just saying.

 

nothing is wrong with it playing up but in this thread, the OP said his son was struggling. that is what is wrong. if they are not succeeding when they are playing up, there is no benefit and it is actually conterproductive.

 

Travelmom you are absolutely correct

 

Getting into this discussion on the tail end....all I can offer is a recent personal experience with one of my sons....hope it helps a little...

My middle child (son) is 10 and is currently playing on age. We started him out playing 'up' an age bracket primarily out of convenience...his older brother is 11. So, it worked great for them both to be on the same team with the same practice/match schedule. That was then...

As a couple of years went by, my younger son actually became the stronger of the two boys and was actually outplaying his older brother. Completely different personalities and motivation levels--younger son is very driven to play well and to succeed. So...the motivation of his parents became an issue (I played through college and still coach yada yada yada...). We then felt it necessary for our younger son to play up in order to have the best chance at succeeding.

Fast forward to a year ago when we made the decision to join a new club. They required kids to try out 'on age.' Needless to say, we weren't very happy with this mandate, feeling that he was being shortchanged in not being given the opportunity to move up to be challenged more.

Now...a year into his playing on age, and he's actually improved much more than we feel that he would have by playing up. It's given him a bit more time on the ball to develop a greater confidence and to work on his technical skills under pressure. I started assisting with his team and am now coaching his team. Overall, it's a group of kids that play at a fairly high level for their age bracket. So, the decision was made to play the team up an age bracket on occasion to challenge all of them rather than just one small fish amongst the larger fishes... This has worked incredibly well in this situation.

He's still playing on age, developing extremely well, and has a much higher confidence level, which has allowed him to play better. It's a nice cycle. And funny how the opposite of what we thought would be best has actually been best for him. Obviously all kids are different, but my advice would be not to be afraid to just let him play on age. The best part is that he loves the game now more than ever.

The main thing early on is to learn the technical skills and to learn them correctly. The goal is to keep him playing and having fun... What happens when he comes to you in two years and tells you he wants to take up tennis? Will you be supportive? If you keep it fun for him AND in an environment where he continues to develop, he'll grow to love the game and desire to keep playing it. If he's pushed too hard too soon, he may develop nicely, too. BUT....if that development ends up in a new tennis racket, then all of those gains were for naught.... Something to think about...

 

The discussion is really about the exceptional player who is clearly dominating at his own age. This type of player is likely unusually athletic, competitive, mentally tough, is exceptionally passionate about soccer and probably already plays at home with siblings and friends who are several years older. You shouldn't worry about damaging this players delicate psyche, it's not as delicate as you think. Imagine if some U.S. soccer know-it-all attempted to warn Mr. and Mrs. Messi about their child running circles around boys 4-5 years older or warned the parents of Wayne Rooney about the potential confidence shattering of him thumping boys much older than him. Again, EVERY world class player played up several years. Not a single world class player has ever succeeded by following the clueless advice of the "don't play up!" fad. Why can't the advocates of "don't play up!" give us a list of world class players where their advice has actually worked?

The real danger is not damaging the confidence of a slightly better than average player who probably should not be playing up, but the boredom and lack of skill development for the exceptional player who should be playing with his skill-level peers but isn't. Bored with competition, bored with repetition of skills he has already mastered will lead to bored with soccer. Not providing an arena in which this type player can flourish is damaging to him. If your child had mastered his age-level math or reading skills, would you want him stuck at that level for another year so as not to 'damage' his confidence?

It should be noted that the U.S. soccer, fortunately, encourages exceptional players to play up. DAP wants exceptional U14 players playing in the U16 league, and exceptional U16 players playing U18.

 

Young kids never get bored or tired of playing with there friends. At a young age kids want to be social with each other. I woudl respectfully disagree that you should have moved him to U8 at 5. That is too young. 6 maybe not so bad.

 

I can almost guarantee that at 4-5 Lionel Messi wasnt even on a team, he was probably just playing around with kids his own age. Learning to be creative. Outside of the US most young kids get the experience of watching the game all the time. They then try and emulate what they see (this is how young kids learn, by seeing and then doing) In the US we put too much emphasis on trying to jam things into young kids, instead of allowing them to naturally develop through play, which is what young kids want to do.
As for your comment about U14 playing at U16 level or U16 playing at U18 level at those ages the physical differences can be slight. But the physical/coordination differences between a 5 year old playing with 7-8 year olds can be pretty huge. For that matter even a 8 year old playing with 10 year olds the physical maturity is great.

Academy, I know what you are trying to say, but I will respectfully disagree.