Pirlo #legend

Discussion in 'Italy' started by phat, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    AS Roma
    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
    Rosay and phat repped this.
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    My grandparents, uncles and aunts all lived in NYC for over 50 years after immigrating from Italy and never really learned how to speak English but they still became quite wealthy in the process. Just curious, what exactly does he need to learn? How to pass a ball? How to say offside, Goalkeeper or defender GOAL? Hello my name is Pirlo and I'm one of the the best soccer player's Italy has seen in the last 10 years! :):):):)
     
  3. phat

    phat Viking

    Feb 13, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Does days are over. The reason our grandparents didn't need to learn the language was that everyone was Italian, from the grocery shop owners/workers to the doctors/dentists. Pirlo is probably doing it for the dinero.
     
    Rosay repped this.
  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #429 falvo, Jun 10, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
    Actually , when the other half of my family moved out to California, not everyone out here really spoke Italian and they all still became pretty successful and fairly wealthy through hard work. Maybe I overstated , they did speak broken English.

    Pirlo with a net worth of $30 million not including yearly endorsements and other things, I'm sure will learn English fast enough.
     
  5. NickyViola

    NickyViola Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Boston
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    He's taking... What is that? A pole dancing class?
     
  6. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Pirlo *ma che cazzo sta dicendo*
     
  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    [​IMG]
     
    Rosay repped this.
  8. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    He doesn't seem all that heartbroken about not being selected for Italy......

    [​IMG]
     
    phat repped this.
  9. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Andrea Pirlo preparing the BBQ in NYC, like a real All American!

    [​IMG]
     
    phat repped this.
  10. bachir

    bachir Member

    Jul 21, 2007
    phat, falvo and Rosay repped this.
  11. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Why, because he is using a fork? Pirlo definitely made a lifestyle choice. Good for him although he would have been useful in France.
     
  12. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Pirlo could have a t least taken a pk....although "I'm sure "the level of the league" will have hindered him from shooting one......:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    phat and Rosay repped this.
  13. NickyViola

    NickyViola Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Boston
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    Pirlo should have had a steak spatula, no one can deny that.
     
    St. Michael's Sword repped this.
  14. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    @Falc
    @falvo

    You'll like this


    The old-style libero hasn't vanished, Martin Mazur discovers he's just moved on - but the traditional role may yet make a comeback.

    Few words in football are understood so universally that they need no translation. Libero is one of them. And yet the position is now found only in football's history books - despite all those 'free men' who inspired thousands of players over the decades. Even Italy, the country that developed and embraced the sweeper, seems to believe the libero should be remembered as if it were an icon of an ancient, defeated empire.

    "Italy is a country of trends, and the trend is now zonal marking," says Giancarlo Corrandini, libero of the Napoli side that won the scudetto in 1990. "Twenty years ago, everybody used liberos and stoppers. Now, that seems impossible. It is not modern football. I don't think we will see a classic libero again in Italy."

    The libero is the most conspicuous victim of tactical evolution. "The role has disappeared, and I don't see a reason for bringing it back," says 1982 World Cup-winner Antonio Cabrini.

    The European Cup had a massive influence on the birth and death of liberos in Italy. "At the start, it was very difficult for us to win in Europe," explains Eugenio Fascetti. He was the last manager to deploy a traditional libero in Serie A - while coaching Bari eight years ago. "Liberos meant strengthening defence to avoid risks. Suddenly, we saw Inter and Milan lifting the European Cup. Then Juventus. Later, Sacchi's Milan showed there was another way of winning - and everybody copied."

    Up until a few years ago, there were still discussions over the pros and cons of using a libero. Now, the debate is closed, even though mention of the position prompts melancholic nostalgia among aficionados.

    LIBERO, ITALIAN STYLE

    The libero came into being as the only defender free of marking responsibilities - he had no assigned opponent. The first Italian libero was Inter's Armando Picchi, who excelled in the catenaccio perfected by Helenio Herrera's Inter (1960-1968). Like most of the greatest liberos, Picchi did not start out as a central defender - he was a right-back.

    "I played with Picchi," says former Roma manager Carlo Mazzone, "and every intervention he made ended an opponents' attack. It was a destructive role. But, over the years, coaches honed this position into a new role. Everything started from the libero."

    The term was integrated into every language as the liberos' importance grew. No other position has evolved so much, so quickly. "The original libero stayed back and didn't touch the ball for more than two minutes a game. Then they started to participate more and more and balance the midfield," says Renato Zaccarelli, an attacking midfielder who played as a sweeper in Torino late in his career. He was presented with the best-libero award in his final season, 1986/87.

    "Aside from Beckenbauer, we had the best sweepers," says Cabrini. "At first, liberos were ultra-defensive. Then we made them evolve into directors of the team. Gaetano Scirea started the revolution, playing as a free man always near the ball."

    Scirea scored 25 league goals for Juventus (and this year became the first Italian player to have a street named in his honour - in Turin). Picchi, at Inter, scored only two.

    In Scirea's time at Juventus, the libero was a poetic position - the No 10 of the defence, mapping out the game plan. Good liberos needed a rare mix of personality, intuition, experience, technical ability, concentration, and leadership. They didn't need raw power; few of them topped 5 ft 11in (1.80m). "Beckenbauer and Scirea, originally midfielders, created the new libero: going forward with the ball and playing all over the pitch. They set the example for many of us," says Zaccarelli.

    DID SACCHI KILL THE SWEEPER?

    Many blame the disappearance of the libero in Italy on Arrigo Sacchi. His perfect Milan side played a high-pressing game, used zonal marking and incorporated the traditional libero into a four-man defence. This was Serie A's New Testament - and one man was key: Franco Baresi. "Baresi was the last in the evolutionary chain," says Zaccarelli, "becoming what we call a centrale staccato - a detached central defender. We were nearing the end of our careers, he was just starting - but you could sense his influence on the game would be massive."

    Baresi said at the time: "With Sacchi, we focused on creating rather than breaking down, defending spaces rather than marking men. The secret? At all times you must know your position, where you are standing, and you must participate in the action - even if you are far from the ball." Baresi's acceleration was impressive, but few noticed his braking ability. "He could be running flat out and practically freeze in one moment, as no other human being could," says Nestor Sensini, a libero at Lazio, Parma and Udinese. "One time, he provoked Real Madrid into an offside trap more than 20 times."

    "Baresi created the elastico," says Corradini. "He'd be behind the line then get back very quickly, putting his opponent offside. Then he'd move forward with the ball. He was a classic libero for Italy and a modern libero for Milan. Eventually, the classic libero disappeared. Baresi beat Baresi."

    The arrival of Sven-Goran Eriksson, Zdenek Zeman and Fabio Capello reinforced the trend started by Sacchi and Nils Liedholm. Italy became a zonal-marking nation. In 1987, all 18 Serie A teams had a libero. By 1997, there were seven. In 2007, none.

    "The libero evolved so much it became a stealth position," says Fascetti. "In almost every action you see - or should see - someone playing libero. But the position is so hidden it appears dead."

    Corradini, who became a libero after years in another position, reckons football's evolving rulebook is the cause. "A fixed libero has become dangerous for his own team, and some rule changes have left him very exposed," he says. "A professional foul is a red card, and a passive offside isn't penalised like it was 20 years ago. And a fixed last man 5m behind the line in a 70m-wide pitch concedes a 350 square metre patch to the opponents."

    Cabrini adds that an old-fashioned libero leaves you a man short. "The libero supported the stoppers, doubling up on an opponent. But with zonal marking, everybody marks and everybody doubles up. Sometimes you see three or four against one."

    You can find traces of the old libero in modern football, but not in the back four. "There are trends in football," says Mazzone. "This is a time of between-the-lines players. From a classic 4-4-2, we now have a 4-1-1-1-1-3-0 as we have at Roma. That first man in midfield - Daniele De Rossi at Roma - is the modern libero. His movements are similar, but he starts ahead of the defenders and retreats into the shell if needed. But he gets the ball all the time and is the main distributor."

    At World Cup 94, Brazil's Mauro Silva showed the world how to do it, retreating between the centre-backs as wing-backs Jorginho and Branco were deployed as wingers in attack.

    "You have to stay away from one-on-ones," explains Fascetti. "If your opponent plays with one striker, there should be no excuses. One of the two centre-backs must get him, the other sweeps from behind. If there are two strikers, one of the full-backs must mark him, leaving the centre-back free. In zonal marking, this is complicated. It's easier to have someone like De Rossie tracking back and acting as libero, with two centre-backs busy marking the two strikers." Fascetti believes Pirlo would make a better libero than Allesandro Nesta. Mazzone, vital in Pirlo's transformation, agrees: "I was managing Brescia when Pirlo still considered himself a mezzapunta (attacking midfielder). I told him to play in front of the defenders, because he had vision. 'But I like goals,' he told me, unconvinced. 'You score four or five a year,' I replied. 'Play in this position and you'll score even more. Let's try it for two weeks. You'll be a base playmaker.'

    "I told him to play two games without asking questions. Afterwards he told me: 'I feel very comfortable here. I get the ball all the time.' He found out how it worked. If I'd told him I was going to play him as a libero ahead of the defenders, he'd have run away terrified. Calling him a base playmaker convinced him."

    BRING BACK MAGIC MARKERS

    Zonal marking rules in modern football, but a decade without liberos has revealed problems. Fascetti has a worrying theory: "After many years playing just one way, Italian defenders are forgetting one of their distinguishing characteristics - to mark. We lack good markers. You see it in every team. We often see central defenders look at each other complaining: 'It was your man.' One striker can put four men at risk. With a libero, we wouldn't see that."

    "It's true, the new generation has difficulty marking," says Mazzone. "The abuse of zonal marking has meant centre-backs benefit from not marking any more. Look at Cannavaro: when Materazzi was sent off against Australia in the World Cup, he excelled as an emergency libero. There are not many new Cannavaros."

    The libero system encouraged young players to mark. Now, they are encouraged to defend spaces - and some of the art of defending has been lost. "It's the problem of embracing zonal marking so young. I'd bring back the classic libero in football academies. Learning the libero trade makes 14- and 15-year-olds more intelligent," says Corradini. "I'd make all four defenders alternate every 20 minutes between libero and stopper," he adds. "Playing as a libero is like being in a [back-to-basics] Dogme film. You travel with the ball all the time - the camera never stands still. You discover how football really works, visit parts of the field you've never been to before. You develop your mind." Zaccarelli agrees: "I don't know if the old libero will come back, but something is missing. We've lost the anticipation, forethought and improvisation a libero offers - and we've lost full-time markers, players who could erase an opponent from the pitch.

    "At school, I had calligraphy. Now kids go directly to the computer. It's a bit like that in defending. New things come, but craft is lost. I see this when I manage youngsters. They work in fixed-game situations - but don't integrate them in real games. It's like looking at photographs instead of a real film."

    Is the old sweeper dead? Fascetti says only a brave coach could resurrect them: "The hard-liners say the libero is dead. If I still coached, I'd play with two liberos wandering around the pitch. Believe me, it's possible."
     
    La Magica, Rosay and falvo repped this.
  15. Falc

    Falc Member+

    Jul 29, 2006
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    They are overthinking on this one. The game continues to have some form of a libero. Only the English have been stupid enough to stick with a flat back four. Thus, their defense sucks. Most teams will have that brute marker (Chiellin) paired up with a defender who is in charge of the defense. The difference from years ago is that the defenders are not assigned specific marks. They pick up the player in their zone but usually the scouting will have them looking for particular players and patterns.
     
    NickyViola repped this.
  16. Calcio Pauly

    Calcio Pauly Member+

    Jun 17, 2012
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I marked the part in bold that applies to the thread topic. Mazzone's quote.
     
    falvo repped this.
  17. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    It was a shame that Mazzone was never given a big club to manage other than semi big Roma. He did well with them but never enough to win it all. It took Fabio Capello and Batistuta to get Roma to win it all. He was the was the one who made both Pirlo and Toni into the players they became.
     
  18. NickyViola

    NickyViola Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Boston
    Club:
    ACF Fiorentina
    As the post suggests, the deep-lying playmaker *is* the more modern incarnation of the sweeper.
     
  19. phat

    phat Viking

    Feb 13, 2006
    Montreal
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #444 phat, Jul 25, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2016
    Bonucci, Jerome boateng and Javier Martinez have done similarly. Not to mention inversely in guys like DDR, Vidal and Mascherano. The article seems to pertain to Pirlo, but the technical position still exists in tactical terms.

    Then I guess we can talk about Busquets (I hate the guy) and to an extent XavIniesta.


    A while back there was a large discussion in 2 threads about some clown englishman writer criticizing Italian players/football. But the reality is that these tactics come from directly Italians or guys that have played in the Italian league (Guardiola/Enrique). The players that play these roles are instructed to do so as role players in a greater scheme and not just thrown out there to run at the ball. Consequently they have won silverware. SAF also employed the same tactical ideology to his game plans (specifically in Europe). Point is that you can't simply take a role player in Italy and throw him into a kickball session believing in the same outcome.
     
  20. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    [​IMG]
     
    whill4, phat and Rosay repped this.
  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    [​IMG]
     
    phat and Rosay repped this.
  22. Rosay

    Rosay Member+

    May 7, 2014
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Forza Milano!
     
    totti fan repped this.
  23. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    AS Roma
    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. Il Ciuccio

    Il Ciuccio Member+

    Feb 17, 2010
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  25. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy

Share This Page