PDL vs. NPSL

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by olujosh, Feb 3, 2007.

  1. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States
    Okay cool.

    ==
    OLujosh: He's just saying that USL won't become a regional 2nd division, because the USL (read Rochester) wants to appear bigger than it is.
     
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    There is nothing wrong with being regional and I'm all for it , esppecially to discover good local talent. The USL could do that but they don't want to. The PDL & the NPSL is actually a great regional set up but they are 3rd & 4th division outfits. You also have to consider that currently, the players are amateur and most of them play for NCAA school. NCAA won't allow pros any which way & I don't think we can just close our eyes and make those PDL teams become USL2 or USL1 because the owners won't want to pay the financial dues required to become that high of a division. I think the USL tried doing that back in 1997 or 98 and many teams ended up folding. From what I gathered it was too costly and too much travel. I wish it would happen and also wish the USL would split the country in 4 - 6 regional divisions but I doubt its going to happen.
     
  3. jeffconn

    jeffconn Member

    Jul 25, 2004
    Norfolk, VA, USA
    Club:
    Hampton Roads Piranhas
    Country:
    United States
    i think a more appropriate comparison would be AAA Baseball, where the International League plays in the east and the Pacific League plays in the west and midwest. The two leagues only play each other during the AAA All-Star Game and the AAA World Series. Even though the American Hockey League is ice hockey's only AAA level minor league, it isn't national in scope. It goes as far west as Omaha, Nebraska and Houston, Texas, and only goes as far south as Norfolk, Virginia.
     
  4. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    United States
    Every USL-1 team visits every other team every season. This has been the case at least since the name change from A-League to USL-1. They play a full home-and-away schedule, plus a few extra games between nearby teams to add up to a 28-game season.
     
  5. olujosh

    olujosh Member

    Aug 23, 1999
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Country:
    United States
    I'm wrong...I was thinking of 2004.

    2001 - Portland played at Rochester
    2002 - didn't play Rochester
    2003 - didn't play Rochester
    2004 - Rochester played at Portland
    2005 - played a home/home w/ Rochester
    2006 - played a home/home w/ Rochester

    The Home/Home thing is a recent thing....I just remembered Timber fans complaining in '04 that this was the Rhinos first trip out west in a long time...
     
  6. soccerall

    soccerall Member

    Mar 16, 2005
    I thought NPSL was equal to PDL. If you look at this news release just put out by the new NPSL team on Long Island, they are saying it is equivalent to Division 2 in the USSF hierarchy?

    NEW MEN'S TEAM
    L.I. Academy to compete in NPSL

    The Long Island Fury of the Women's Premier Soccer League, the league's 2006 national champions and organization of the year, announced Sunday the formation of an affiliated men's team.

    The Long Island Academy will compete in the National Premier Soccer League (NPSL) this summer.

    A schedule will be announced soon.

    In the U.S. Soccer structure, the Long Island Academy and NPSL are Division 3, two levels below MSL and equal to USL Division 2.

    The Academy and Fury names derive from the top premier teams in the Long Island Junior Soccer League's Albertson Soccer Club. Albertson is the only top-to-bottom premier soccer club on Long Island. From Under-7 to U-18.
    Boys wear the navy blue-and-red uniform of the Academy and now they have a top level men's team to support and follow.

    The Albertson Soccer Club and the Long Island Academy will develop programs that enable players to flourish and reach their potential in order to play college ball and subsequently the NPSL, with MLS and even foreignleagues as the top goal
     
  7. cristoforo7

    cristoforo7 New Member

    May 14, 2003
    I am not sure where they get that "Division 3" info, but it can't be correct-- unless USL-2, PDL and NPSL are all considered "Division 3" by USSF/FIFA which I highly doubt.

    PDL and NPSL are at the same level. The difference between the two in terms of soccer hierachy, as I understand it, is that NPSL derives its charter and status through USASA ( http://www.usasa.com ), whereas the PDL derives its charter and status directly from USSF (although they are both adult mens leagues for amateur status players). And unlike the USL-2, no professional players are allowed in the PDL and NPSL.

    There are slightly different eligibility rules, such as the PDL has a limit on the number of players over the age of 24 (or is it 23 or 25?) and requires three U-19 players on the roster, but the leagues are basically the same as to everything else except Open Cup qualification. (NPSL must go through the USASA qualifying process, whereas the PDL has its own process and a dedicated number of spots, currently 8, for PDL clubs only.)

    So I would be extremely surprised if the PDL and NPSL were regarded as different soccer divisions by USSF/FIFA.
     
  8. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    This link is from the American Soccer History archives. Its from 2004 and it lists the PDL as DIVISION 4.....Now if things have changed in 2 years , its a different story. There is no listing for the NPSL although there is one called the MPSL. It doesn't say what division they were, however.
    USL Premier Development League (PDL) ("Division 4")
    http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/year/2004.html#pdl
     
  9. cristoforo7

    cristoforo7 New Member

    May 14, 2003
    So if PDL is Division 4, the NPSL is also Division 4. Simple.
     
  10. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy
    Therefore, there are only 10 teams in the USL2 which is actually a 3rd tier status & there are two 4th division leagues in America.

    http://www.uslfans.com/

    MLS=Division 1 (1st tier)
    13 clubs

    USL1=Division 2 (2nd tier)
    13 clubs

    USL2=Division 3 (3rd tier)
    10 clubs

    NPSL & PDL
    =
    Division 4 (4th tier)
    clubs????Many!
     
  11. cristoforo7

    cristoforo7 New Member

    May 14, 2003
    Here's a useful (but far from comprehensive) page which shows the basic organizational structure of U.S. Soccer:

    http://www.ussoccer.com/about/soccer/index.jsp.html

    Click on the icons for USL and for USASA for more info (which is not up to date). On the USL page, it is confirmed that USL-1 is Division 2 of U.S. Soccer, but it says nothing about USL-2 or PDL in terms of their "division."
     
  12. OneEyeJack

    OneEyeJack New Member

    Jan 10, 2006
    Club:
    San Francisco Seals
    Just to clear things up a bit. PDL and NPSL are not as I understand it on the same level in the US soccer Pyramid. See my webstie http://web.mac.com/ecampsromero

    Under soccer pyramid.

    So I gather that D1 = MLS
    D2= USL D1
    D3 = USL D2, NPSL
    D4 = PDL and all other amature soccer

    That's what I understand anyway
     
  13. olujosh

    olujosh Member

    Aug 23, 1999
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Country:
    United States
    That doesn't make any sense....can someone contact someone to clarify this issue?
     
  14. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States
    NPSL is amateur, and is equivalent to PDL.
     
  15. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Country:
    United States
    I agree, its been circulated to various sites that NPSL is some how at a different level than PDL. But in reality they are almost identical. At least as far as player level is concerned. Its non-professional. Period.

    It's-
    D1 = MLS
    D2= USL D1
    D3 = USL D2
    D4 = PDL, NPSL and all other amature soccer
     
  16. OneEyeJack

    OneEyeJack New Member

    Jan 10, 2006
    Club:
    San Francisco Seals
    Soccer Prime I am not so sure, the PDL has age limtis and the like that the NPSL doesn't have. I do think that it should be possible to get a more authoritative response than Wiki, I am work now and I have the NPSL paperwork at homw which I also think might state D3 status. Anyway it should be available from another source. If I get some time I will search for it.
     
  17. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Country:
    United States
    What age limits for PDL are you referring to?
    Wiki says:
    A maximum of eight players on each team's 26-man roster can be over 23 years old, and at least three players on each team's roster must be 18 or younger.

    I don't see how NPSL is a higher level than PDL.
     
  18. OneEyeJack

    OneEyeJack New Member

    Jan 10, 2006
    Club:
    San Francisco Seals
    That would be the restrictions I was referring to. I am not commenting on the quality on the pitch just how the USA soccer Pyramid seems to rank them.
     
  19. panicfc

    panicfc Member+

    Dec 22, 2000
    In my chair, typing
    Country:
    United States
    The key is money, amateurs are amateur, and professionals are professional. NPSL is amateur

    PDL is amateur

    USL D2 - professional contracts are signed, regardless of amounts of money exchanged.

    With an NPSL or PDL team, a player can basically leave your team and you really can't do anything to stop him. You can't fine him, you can't transfer list him - he can sign with Barcelona and you might, if you are lucky get a "formation rights" fee... if you can prove you developed him.
     
  20. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Country:
    Italy


    If anyone is interested or didn't know,
    the USASA is in the 5th division of US Soccer.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USASA
    In the amateur leagues in this country, teams have been paying players for years. What are players being paid under the table considered?
     
  21. keem-o-sabi

    keem-o-sabi Member

    Sep 7, 2005
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    United States
    You still have to register the players, and I'm pretty sure that if they sign for a professional team the amateur team still has to release that player. Same if they leave the team for another sanctioned team in the amateur ranks.
     
  22. pcrow

    pcrow New Member

    Feb 24, 2006
    WA

    No way PDL, NPSL "and all other amateur soccer" is on the same level.

    PDL and NPSL are more or less on the same level, but pretty much every amateur soccer league is at the very least one step below.
     
  23. Highbury

    Highbury Member

    May 13, 2006
    Philadelphia
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    United States
    Good ol' men's league.
     
  24. Paul Schmidt

    Paul Schmidt Member

    Feb 3, 2001
    Portland, Oregon!
    USSF, when they run the Open Cup, tend to treat PDL as 4th division and USASA (inclusive of NPSL) as 5th division. Mind you, NPSL teams give and take reasonably with PDL in those matches.

    ********************************

    One of the things I noticed at the birth of the NPSL was that Chico opted to have a few more "overagers" on their roster. I'm just wondering if that was part of their motivation for jumping, because otherwise they were actually drawing well. It's my impression that NPSL clubs don't draw, I thought Chico was an exception (they're out), supposedly Albuquerque does OK.
     
  25. ButlerBob

    ButlerBob Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 13, 2001
    Evanston, IL
    Club:
    DC United
    Country:
    United States
    Here's my take on why the NPSL is considered part of the USASA qualification for the US Open cup. When they started, they were primarily a league in one region (similar to the Pacific Coast League). So they threw them in with how the regional and local leagues qualify teams. Now that they cover three regions, they should probably be put in at the next level. This would probably encourage the USASA clubs on the West Coast to stay involved after the state level.

    Here's how I think Chico ended up in MPSL/NPSL. They were one of the better D3/now USL2 teams in the west region. But then their league continued to shrink until they were pretty much without other teams. They moved PDL, but had to drop a number of their older players. They still had a lot of travel at the PDL level and got tired of being told what to do from across the country. So they followed the example of the women's clubs that left the W-League and helped to form the MPSL /now NPS.
     

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