Pre-match: PBP/Post: 2017 FIFA U-20 World Cup; USA vs Ecuador

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Sebsasour, May 13, 2017.

  1. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Too theoretical for me. I'd go with Tata or Pauvo. Is the PSG guy handling Chi youth yet?
    https://www.chicago-fire.com/academy/coaches

    Looks like it. Moussa Dembele? Name sounds familiar. Different Dembele.

    extract:

    Cedric Cattenoy, Chicago Fire Academy Technical Director
    Cattenoy joins the Fire after most recently serving as the head coach of the Paris Saint-Germain Academy, a role he began in 2014. During that time, Cattenoy was tasked with developing the PSG method internationally, overseeing the training programs for the academy teams and training coaches in France and abroad. Cattenoy has helped produce more than 70 professional players, including Celtic FC forward and French U-21 international Moussa Dembélé


    I liked the way Tuchel handled Puli. Will be interesting to see where Tuchel ends up, if he doesn't choose to stay at Dortmund.
     
  2. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Well if "scream at your teammates" is what he still needs to learn, Howard can give him a master class.
     
  3. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The whole point would be to play club ball somewhere until bolting abroad at 18. That can't happen if he signs with MLS.

    See the Haji/Taitague route.
     
  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    #554 Excellency, May 22, 2017
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
    cabezas may not be Messi but he is good at what he does. It's not like Ecuador were a model of organization either.

    Doyle is pure corporate butt boy. Just use the right filter in your glasses when you are reading his stuff about individual players. Hey, Doyle's gotta eat too. Just sayin'. Maybe MLS should rethink their spiel so their writers can engage a little more with reality.

    Doyle said K.Acosta would win league MVP this year. Sounds like a plea for help.

    His review of U20's was actually good. I agree.
     
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  5. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    A year out from the World Cup, I think we need to be calling in players who could play at the WC.

    Sargent can't actually play anywhere in Europe until after the WC. If he was to sign for the rest of the season with a USL or NASL club, he could then play in February. Even then, its a tough go to get him to the World Cup, if he was good enough. Is he getting first team playing time immediately after he joins a European team? Probably not, if its a good club. He'll probably go down the McKennie, Wright, Taitague path. If its a medium sized club like Rubin signed with, maybe he has a better chance, but this is an absolute best case scenario that he's getting playing time in February, if he decides to take the European path.

    But I definitely do think he has the type of talent you'd be looking to incorporate into the NT. I'm just not sure the situation is right for him. Had he signed in MLS, he might have a better chance. All these young guys gotta be playing regularly, otherwise they shouldn't be picked for the Gold Cup. Its not a prospect tournament, we gotta be thinking towards the WC. There are a number of young players that I think are getting towards the senior team radar (CCV, EPB, McKennie, Wright, Perez, Carleton, Sargent, Adams, Pomykal, Taitague, Glad, etc), but I'm not sure any are good bets for the Gold Cup, at this point.
     
  6. chrome_vapors

    chrome_vapors Member+

    Oct 15, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sadly I fear the worse.

    Non-contact injury, one of the additional replays showed exactly what happened from an up close angle, front studs got caught in the turn and his knee twisted pretty badly.
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Feel bad for him because he probably should have come off after first knock but he looked like he wanted to soldier on.
     
  8. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I laughed.

    This is what his crystal ball told him about Acosta and what he'll be in 2026.


    Acosta's time with Napoli – in which he did what Diego Maradona couldn't and led the Italian club to Champions League glory – is what he's best known for worldwide, but to MLS fans he'll always be known as the guy who led FC Dallas to the 2019 CCL title.

    You have to wonder if he wakes up in the morning legitimately believing this stuff or if he's just handed "hype to asinine levels" talking points from his corporate handlers.

    In the real world he'd probably get sued for false advertising.

    As an aside, anyone else notice mlssoccerdotcom, after Pulisic broke thru, disbanded their yank abroad coverage/section and put a blackout on all things Pulisic. In 2016 there were countless Pulisic stories there, BVB, UCL, Liverpool interest, all of it. Then ever since getting mocked when he was added to their allocation list they haven't printed another word on him outside of the March qualifiers.
     
  9. stevenash_lite

    stevenash_lite New Member

    Feb 10, 2017
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Williamson has WAY more than "decent" athleticism. He needs to improve in plenty of areas, but he has "athleticism" for days. Would agree that EW and Adams both have very good motors, but Williamson's athleticism is in the top tier of this roster, easily. I agree that Williamson did not have a good game today, but I still think he starts vs Senegal (assuming GZ is done for good.) If Gedion was healthy, EW probably does come out of the starting lineup for Jones, as Jones did make a big difference. But EW did better with him back there after he came in, and Jones fits better with EW just like Jones fits better with GZ than EW. Williamson didn't start the first game in CONCACAF, and then started every game after and was one of our better players over the course of the tourney, including having a beast of a game vs Mexico, not to mention the golazo later on. I expect him to play better in the next game. I continue to say he gets less respect than he should just because he is still in college. He's better than a majority of the pros on this team, and was a deserved starter throughout CONCACAF. DC low-balled him on a HG contract, so I don't blame him for saying no and taking his time looking for a better option. If we want to beat the France's of the tourney, we will need to play at the level of that Mexico match, and that includes having EW as part of the midfield, assuming GZ is out. Heck, I'd even be OK with him and DLT out wide in a diamond as was suggested elsewhere in this thread.

     
  10. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010
    #560 beerslinger23, May 22, 2017
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
    Doyle being the MLS company man he is can't be relied upon to give objective outlooks on anything. He should be going in on Herrera, Redding and Williamson but he goes light on them while bashing GZ who was totally misused by Ramos. Jones should have started at DM. Zelalem should play in front of him, not behind him and he shouldn't have to go deep to pick up the ball from CBs who can play out of the back especially considering the speed and strength of the Ecuadorean attack. He goes in on Klinsmann when he was hung out to dry multiple times by the pylon that was Herrera and then Doyle gives credit to Herrera for tightening up his play when he never did. It was always Jones who put those fires out once Ramos' hand was forced.

    MLs players always get more credit than they should. He doesn't give DLT enough and then claims he was poor to mediocre in qualifying which is a lie. He is truthful only on Sargent, Klinsmann's brain fart (this is on Herrera too IIRC who played a really fast ball into JoK when there were three Ecuadorians in the box) and Ramos' adjustments. Every other thing he said was either duh obvious or a subtle promotion of MLS/shot at non-MLS players.

    I believe MLS is the key to our future as a soccer nation but we need objective analysis and he can't be objective lest he lose his job. We need the truth in reporting and fairness in analysis!
     
  11. schlomo

    schlomo Red Card

    F.C. Dallas
    United States
    Apr 6, 2017
    Media is not benevolent...its a moneymaking venture. Carlos Slim owns NY Times and Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post. MLS.com is advocating its product, which is why you hear them publicly hoping that Seattle, LA, and NY teams do well. Its also why you hear them advocate for certain players to get minutes with the USMNT. Those players get a higher media profile and advertise the league. Feilhaber, Roldan, Shipp, etc, are all examples of overhyped players who MLS has advocated, at times obsessively. Who is the next USMNT star? If you're an MLS writer, it has to be someone in MLS with a high profile...likely a team with good support.
     
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  12. Lookingforleftbacks

    Galaxy
    United States
    Dec 17, 2016
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, he was pretty bad. But I thought EPB looked below average too and can't help but think it has something to do with them knowing that both fullbacks were completely useless. I don't really think we have a better option than Redding on this roster as long as CCV and Glad are out
     
  13. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010
    Exactly right. This is why you need a multitude of voices and the advertising entity shouldn't be taken as gospel when it comes to it's own products. This is also why the marriage of MLS and USSoccer at the USSF level is an unholy union. If MLS stands to make a fortune on the promotion of a few of it's players in the world cup but the manager sees something else and leaves a chosen one off the roster for a better fit, the owners will make them pay. If it's between two players MLS might prop one up while subtly denigrating the other non-MLS player. You need a separation of powers or internal corruption will hold both MLS and the national teams back. Is my view a bit polyanna? Sure but someone needs to speak up on the obvious conflicts.
     
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  14. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    EPB's passing looked a little off because players weren't checking back to find him, like I think he expected. Adams and Williamson were basically worthless. They stood in midfield, waited for the ball, and then it would go by them, and then they'd run towards it some more, and wait. They could never find it. Jones did a slightly better job with that than them, but once Zelalem went out, most of the passing outlets for the CB's were gone. Its also not so easy for a right-footed CB to pass going left.

    I think he was very good, besides his passing though. He snuffed out a number of fires that other players created (and one or two he created). He played no part in any of the goals against. But we know he's about as good of a passer of the ball as we have, so its nothing to be concerned about long-term, just not the easiest situation with the lack of mids checking-back and playing on the left-side.
     
  15. headerdunce

    headerdunce Member

    Dec 19, 2005
    I just watched the match and am excited for the future. De La Torre and Zelalem could both become very good if they develop physically. Sargent obviously had a good game and looks like a confident finisher (hope it's not just a hot streak) but what I really like about him is his passing, vision and movement. Impressive for a 17 year old.

    Unlike some, I think both Adams and Williamson played well. They basically shut down Ecuador's center mids, and both pushed forward when they had a chance. Jones is an impressive athlete and seems calm out there.

    It was nice to see a USYNT control possession over a good South American side. Can we keep it up?? I think so, but who knows.
     
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  16. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy

    The fact that Tab started Giddy and put him in a deep Pirlo position tells you Tab knew he had a passing problem with EPB going to cb and Adams and Williamson starting. I think he wanted to get clear how that would work.

    In general, team has to work on passing cues and tempo as a team because there was too much hesitancy. That's understandable but it has to improve. Heck EPB played mid for 3 guys in the regionals. Here he was forced into cb and it was tough for him. For all the talk about Jones' great game - which it was - his passing was always a tick late.

    For all our grousing, the solution could esily be

    -x----glad-----ccv---x-
    ----------epb(6)
    ------jones(8)
    ---lennon-(7)-------dlt(10)
    --------------sargent(9)

    and need a good passer and defender wide left like Hackworth uses Carleton with u17's..
    the Kunga kid looked tepid. Who else do we have? Durkin would do.
    -
     
  17. dsnipes1

    dsnipes1 Member

    Aug 12, 2005
    LONG story here with lots of links and background:

    I teach and coach at Chadwick International School which is a couple blocks away from the hotel where the U.S., Ecuador, Saudi, and Senegal teams are staying. Once the draw for the tournament was made, our admissions director reached out to a number of FA's from qualified countries who will play in Incheon, offering our facilities and logistical help when they are here in Korea. Ecuador was the only country to reply.

    We met them at their hotel last Tuesday when they arrived; they then came to our school on Wednesday (http://www.ecuafutbol.org/web/noticia.php?idn=21145&idc=11#.WSN3NSN97ow) and had a light tactical session on the field for about an hour with some recovery work in the pool.

    They asked us to play them on Thursday, but after watching their light session on Wednesday, I thought maybe they just wanted us to provide an opposition 11 for them to run an opposed training session with their coach stopping play and instructing, etc. But no, in the end, they really just wanted to play; so we played against them with half of my high school varsity team and a number of U20 players from our attached men's league team. For reference, we do have a number of our high schoolers being recruited at the moment, several by NCAA D1 schools (us at Surf Cup this past year: ), and a number of our U20 guys from our men's team are former professionals (kind of, we have 4 players from this group http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33595804 trafficked to Laos that we're trying to help out at the moment), but overall, we obviously weren't in the same stratosphere as Ecuador.

    They started their first 11 against us and went hard from the opening whistle. They got a goal in the 4th minute when our centermid turned the ball over under pressure and they scored in 2 direct passes. We held out reasonably well for the next 10 minutes but realized we weren't going to create much other than hitting long balls to our center forward (, one of the Liberian guys who was trafficked but who hopefully ends up with a K-League Challenge contract after his performance, he impressed some Korean scouts who were there). They attacked mostly down the left through Estupinan and Cabezas, but our right back is another of our Liberians who matched Cabezas for pace and made it at least a bit difficult for him. They got a second and third goal around the 20th minute mark, both from 12+ pass combinations, and then we finally settled down a bit. Our kids were intimidated by the size and speed of the Ecuadorians, and the clear mandate of not tackling or fouling them, lest they get hurt, and some never really adjusted. But our #10 () started to find the ball in central midfield and connected forward a bit, though we found it tough going to create clear-cut chances, and they got a couple goals from set pieces and then a sixth just before the half.

    They kept their first 11 on for the first 20 minutes of the second half and never slowed down or stopped attacking. In fact, Cabezas and Estupinan played the full match as their manager said they were the last two players to report to camp and needed the fitness. We went ahead and rotated players through as I wanted all of our guys, especially our kids, to have the experience of playing in such a once-in-a-lifetime match for them. At one point in the second half, we had 3 freshman on the field :) and they actually did better than some of our juniors (unfortunately, sophomores and seniors were gone on outdoor education trips, taking away 2 of our other D1 recruits and several other starters, I'm still heartbroken for those kids who missed the opportunity to play...). We finally got a goal from a penalty, but really the match was just wave after wave of Ecuador attacks. Their #9 and #16 were especially good, but they just had so much speed and power all over the field. We never really parked the bus or packed it in as I wanted to try to be positive and that wouldn't have helped Ecuador out playing a full match against us sitting deep with 11 guys behind the ball the whole time. The only real weaknesses I saw from them was their #17 had a number of loose touches, turned the ball over, and didn't seem up to pace with his teammates; and their centerbacks had some difficulty with our center forward running at them and tracking him away from the ball.

    The match ultimately ended 12-1 (http://www.ecuafutbol.org/web/noticia.php?idn=21157&idc=11#.WSOCtCN97ow).

    Getting to the USA match:

    I had a sense that the U.S. was going to struggle with the size and speed of Ecuador, and the first 10 minutes of the match was an absolute blitz. Herrera was never going to be able to deal with Cabezas and I just felt sorry for him given that assignment. Redding was also horrible and never looked settled or competent, he was out of his depth. Acosta also looked a bit unsure at left back so EPB was the only one on the backline who seemed to have any confidence and was dialed in. Zelalem didn't work in his role in central midfield without the ball, he was fine on it, though his teammates weren't showing for him when he was in possession, but for the U.S. without possession, he was a liability. That's why when Jones came in, the U.S. was FAR better as he solidified the team through the middle without the ball, and when he won it, he was very positive and made great decisions (he had one give away from a free header, but that was it all match). Jones and Sergeant were the best players on the field for the U.S., with EPB not far behind. De La Torre and Lennon had too many stretches of play where they were anonymous and didn't make much of an impact. Lennon obviously played a role in the goals so he made his contribution when necessary, but he struggled with Estupinan who was faster and stronger than him. Klinsmann had some BIG saves and the obvious gaffe, The rest of the players didn't stand out too much either way...

    In the end, that is a great Ecuador team and the U.S. was fortunate to get a point against them. It was an awesome scene after the goal with most of the U.S. supporters who were in the stadium being on that side close to the goal and our 40+ person contingent from our school certainly went nuts.

    I think Ecuador is likely to go far in the tournament and if the U.S. can sort out the backline and Sergeant keeps scoring, the U.S. can too. One of my buddies who was at the Italy Uruguay match said both Ecuador and the U.S. compare favorably with what he saw from them, and as I stated in a previous post, Senegal and Saudi were clearly a level below both teams.

    That sets up Thursday's match with Senegal as crucial; a point would go a long way and 3 points would be massive. Another friend who is an agent has seen the Saudi U20s play 4 times now, counting yesterday, and they've lost all 4 (I think without scoring). They looked really poor against Senegal, so as long as the U.S. can get something from Thursday, they should be OK. My guess would be Ecuador will thump the Saudis on Thursday and likely beat Senegal as well on Sunday. The Senegalese defense will get eaten up by Ecuador.

    So all in all, its been a fun week with tons more football ahead! I'm going to Ecuador's training session today; we'll see how they look after last night. And I'll of course be at both matches on Thursday and both on Sunday down in Daejeon as well.

    I'll keep the updates coming!
     
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  18. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Nice post.

    Please keep the updates coming
     
  19. Gamecock14

    Gamecock14 Member+

    May 27, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    It's because Greg Seltzer aka noshortcorners, started doing the daily kickoff fulltime instead of exports. There is no one who does exports on the near daily basis of Seltzer. But your narrative sounds correct.:thumbsup:
     
  20. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Thanks for the post. Excellent info and really cool for you guys to get a game with them.

    When I saw Chadwick school I thought it rang a bell. It came to me. Former Lower School head at my kids school is your head there in Korea now! Hopefully you like her!
     
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  21. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    It couldn't be easy to play CB with Herrera at RB. I don't know what he was doing on the first goal. On the second, I don't think Redding realized that central midfielder 10 yards in FRONT of him was actually Herrera. What is he doing there? Ecuador player beats him then passes right to his position.

    Herrera then obviously decides not to let anyone get behind him. However, he does this by ignoring the offside line being set by the other 3. When the announcer says, "and he IS onside!" 4-5 times your defense is not organized. But it was, except for RB.

    Luckily, Klinsman saved one and EPB scrambled to clear a couple; and Ecudor fluffed the rest. But one play, 3 Ecuadorians are behind the three USA defenders who have set a line. But Herrera is so far behind the line he not only keeps them on, but is almost level with Klinsman!

    I'd be ok with Klinsman starting again, but Herrera cannot get another minute.
     
  22. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watched the recording after work.

    Good attacking skill but a complete sieve in back.

    I don't know what Klinsmann was thinking(a familiar phrase!)

    Gritty to come back twice, but don't know what to think of the result, since I don't know about the strength of the other group teams.
     
  23. Kagler24

    Kagler24 Member+

    Nov 13, 2008
    Los Angeles
    Anybody know where I could find a replay online?
     
  24. schlomo

    schlomo Red Card

    F.C. Dallas
    United States
    Apr 6, 2017
    Maybe fox sports go?
     
  25. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    RB problem is actually very easy to fix, put lennon there. His early and late crosses into the box are brilliant. In fact, I would do away entirely with the idea of building anything from the back and just play a heavy dmid driven midfield with emphasis on getting lennon up the pitch 10 times per match with two strikers in the box.

    4-3-2-1

    Our boys, as usual are more athletic than technical, so go ahead and play heavy defensive midfield, but with quick counters and let those FB's push up with the midfield cover.

    If we had our best offensive players available, it would be a different story, for now we have an inform striker with a very good sense for goal, a right footed player with a heck of a cross, a very decent creative/attacking central midfielder.
     

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