Overpopulation: A problem or not?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by tfrunited, Jun 18, 2019.

  1. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Well, he probably has 1,000's of barrels of "Trump Vodka" left over from that failed venture.

    upload_2019-6-18_17-53-32.jpeg
    No point letting it go to waste.

    You will all be shocked, shocked that the bottle producer sued him and Trump sued the distributor for unpaid royalties.

    You will be doubly shocked that the Russians initially committed to purchasing 50,000 cases a year.
     
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  2. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Oy! Almost as shocked as when I stuck my finger in a lamp socket when I didn't believe the bulb was bad. Now I'll believe anything. I know his champagne makes a mean mimosa. His Orangeness dips his finger and then adds the Grand Marnier.

    MAGA...[Make America Grape Again]

    upload_2019-6-18_16-34-51.jpeg
     
  3. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
    Melinda Gates, the wife of Bill Gates, about her contraception project.
     
  4. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
    Because the success of Family Planning 2020, total fertility rates declined faster than expected in the most recent years.

    It seems that these 16 countries currently remain the last ones with very high fertility levels:

    1 Niger 5.9
    2 Mali 5.5
    3 Somalia 5.5
    4 Burundi 5.3
    5 South Sudan 4.9
    6 Uganda 4.9
    7 Angola 4.8
    8 Burkina Faso 4.7
    9 Nigeria 4.7
    10 Zambia 4.7
    11 Guinea 4.5
    12 Malawi 4.1
    13 Benin 4.4
    14 Liberia 4.2
    15 Mozambique 4.2
    16 Timor-Leste 4.2
     
  5. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the problems with a high fertility rate is that the infant mortality rate is also high. Of course, there is no social safety net, so if you don't have children, there is no one to take care of you in your old age. The thinking is that the only way to make sure you have at least one child who grows up to be a productive adult is to have a lot of children.

    One of the worst elements of the HIV crisis in Africa is that it struck down adults in the prime of life, the main earners and supporters of the family. All that was left were the elderly and young children.
     
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  6. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
    #31 tfrunited, Jun 20, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
    You're absolutely right ToMhIlL. These are the most current figures I could find, the last 15 countries with an estimated TFR of at least 4 in 2020 will all be from Sub-Saharan Africa:

    1 Niger 5.9
    2 Mali 5.5
    3 Somalia 5.5
    4 Burundi 5.3
    5 South Sudan 4.9
    6 Uganda 4.9
    7 Angola 4.8
    8 Nigeria 4.7
    9 Zambia 4.7
    10 Burkina Faso 4.5
    11 Guinea 4.5
    12 Benin 4.4
    13 Liberia 4.2
    14 Mozambique 4.2
    15 Malawi 4.1

    I think that soon all countries will have a TFR between 3.5 and 1.5, which is great progress. Even Niger seems to be making improvements: https://www.familyplanning2020.org/niger. Extremely high or extremely low fertility rates can and will make a country a huge mess. Every country needs a balanced fertility rate to develop or maintain its wealth.
     
  7. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Meh, no need, we can get to 12 billion and then follow Japan's lead back down to 3 billion.

    It may make this rock a better place.
     
  8. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
  9. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
  10. usscouse

    usscouse BigSoccer Supporter

    May 3, 2002
    Orygun coast
  11. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
    Overpopulation is a major cause of most of the world’s problems. Whether it is a question of food shortage, lack of drinking water or energy shortages, every country in the world is affected by it – or will be.

    Partly thanks to the import of goods from abroad, any particular country is able to maintain its own welfare. But this cannot go on in an unlimited way. The world population is threatening to rise in the next few decades to 8 or 10 billion. There is a good chance that more and more countries will need their own products themselves.

    Our planet can offer a quality of life comparable to that enjoyed in the European Union to no more than 3 billion people. With a population of 8 to 10 billion, welfare per person on a world scale will drop to that of a poor farmer who can scarcely provide sufficient food for himself and knows nothing of welfare. And thus we will have to share everything fairly in order to avoid disputes or war.

    The climate is changing – and it matters little whether this can be blamed on human activity or on changes in the solar system. The sea level only has to rise slightly in order to cause a great deal of valuable agricultural land to disappear. At present we seem to think that we can keep ahead of famine with the use of artificial fertilisers, by the inhumane breeding of animals and other survival strategies.

    Human beings have a tendency to want more and more welfare. World-wide the numbers of cars and refrigerators are increasing before our very eyes. But there will come a time when population growth and welfare collide. There is a reasonably good chance that floods of people will trek all over the world searching for more food and welfare.

    Technicians are only too happy to point to technology that has solutions to all our problems up its sleeve. Unfortunately technical solutions have not as yet been able to combat world hunger in any significant way. Wherever there is no recognition or solving of the problems on a worldwide scale, war and violence would seem to be inevitable: everyone wants to survive.

    The only solution is a population policy applied on a worldwide scale. This site provides you – per language and, where possible, per country – with articles, films and images from all over the world showing what overpopulation is and why a population policy is important. Unfortunately too often any discussion of overpopulation or of population policies is taboo.

    The business world and the religions are generally only interested in population growth. Allowing welfare to shrink is often just as difficult for the rich as fleeing from poverty is for the poor. In addition the growth scenario continues to dominate worldwide thinking about solutions for the problems set out here.
     
  12. LastBoyscout

    LastBoyscout Member+

    Mar 6, 2013
    Copy pasted from where exactly?
     
  13. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
    #38 tfrunited, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
    Fortunately, countries with high total fertility rates have falling rates. The countries with rates below replacement level, which is around 2.1, have stable rates.

    Country - Total fertility rate - Population above 10 million

    Niger 5.9 Yes
    Mali 5.5 Yes
    Somalia 5.5 Yes
    Burundi 5.3 Yes
    South Sudan 4.9 Yes
    Uganda 4.9 Yes
    Angola 4.8 Yes
    Nigeria 4.7 Yes
    Zambia 4.6 Yes
    Burkina Faso 4.5 Yes
    Guinea 4.5 Yes
    Benin 4.4 Yes
    Liberia 4.1 No
    Malawi 4.1 Yes
    Mozambique 4.1 Yes
    Afghanistan 3.9 Yes
    DR Congo 3.9 Yes
    Senegal 3.9 Yes
    Sierra Leone 3.9 No
    Timor-Leste 3.9 No
    Chad 3.8 Yes
    Equatorial Guinea 3.8 No
    Eritrea 3.8 No
    Guinea-Bissau 3.8 No
    São Tomé and Príncipe 3.8 No
    Madagascar 3.7 Yes
    Togo 3.7 No
    Mauritania 3.6 No
    Central African Republic 3.5 No
    Rwanda 3.5 Yes
    Sudan 3.5 Yes
    Cameroon 3.4 Yes
    Zimbabwe 3.4 Yes
    Comoros 3.2 No
    Congo 3.2 No
    Ethiopia 3.2 Yes
    The Gambia 3.2 No
    Yemen 3.2 Yes
    Côte d’Ivoire 3.1 Yes
    Jordan 3.1 No
    Tanzania 3.0 Yes
    Iraq 2.9 Yes
    Marshall Islands 2.9 No
    Solomon Islands 2.9 No
    Tonga 2.9 No
    Tuvalu 2.9 No
    Vanuatu 2.9 No
    Papua New Guinea 2.8 No
    Gabon 2.7 No
    Ghana 2.7 Yes
    Nauru 2.7 No
    Philippines 2.7 Yes
    Egypt 2.6 Yes
    Samoa 2.6 No
    Belize 2.5 No
    Eswatini 2.5 No
    Guatemala 2.5 Yes
    Honduras 2.5 No
    Kyrgyz Republic 2.5 No
    Lao PDR 2.5 No
    Lesotho 2.5 No
    Oman 2.5 No
    Tajikistan 2.5 No
    Bolivia 2.4 No
    Haiti 2.4 Yes
    Israel 2.4 No
    Pakistan 2.4 Yes
    Cambodia 2.3 Yes
    Fiji 2.3 No
    Kenya 2.3 Yes
    Kiribati 2.3 No
    Micronesia 2.3 No
    Syria 2.3 Yes
    Botswana 2.2 No
    Djibouti 2.2 No
    Dominican Republic 2.2 Yes
    Kuwait 2.2 No
    Panama 2.2 No
    Venezuela 2.2 Yes
    Argentina 2.1 Yes
    Bhutan 2.1 No
    Cabo Verde 2.1 No
    Ecuador 2.1 Yes
    India 2.1 Yes
    Kazakhstan 2.1 Yes
    Mexico 2.1 Yes
    Myanmar 2.1 Yes
    South Africa 2.1 Yes
    St. Vincent and the Grenadines 2.1 No
    Turkey 2.1 Yes
    Bangladesh 2.0 Yes
    Brazil 2.0 Yes
    Dominica 2.0 No
    France 2.0 Yes
    Grenada 2.0 No
    Indonesia 2.0 Yes
    Libya 2.0 No
    Malaysia 2.0 Yes
    Mongolia 2.0 No
    Morocco 2.0 Yes
    Nepal 2.0 Yes
    New Zealand 2.0 No
    Palau 2.0 No
    Peru 2.0 Yes
    Saudi Arabia 2.0 Yes
    Sri Lanka 2.0 Yes
    Turkmenistan 2.0 No
    United States 2.0 Yes
    Uruguay 2.0 No
    Antigua and Barbuda 1.9 No
    Colombia 1.9 Yes
    DPR Korea 1.9 Yes
    Guyana 1.9 No
    Iceland 1.9 No
    Ireland 1.9 No
    Jamaica 1.9 No
    Namibia 1.9 No
    Paraguay 1.9 No
    Suriname 1.9 No
    Sweden 1.9 Yes
    The Bahamas 1.9 No
    Tunisia 1.9 Yes
    Azerbaijan 1.8 Yes
    Costa Rica 1.8 No
    Denmark 1.8 No
    El Salvador 1.8 No
    Iran 1.8 Yes
    Nicaragua 1.8 No
    Norway 1.8 No
    Qatar 1.8 No
    Russia 1.8 Yes
    Seychelles 1.8 No
    St. Kitts and Nevis 1.8 No
    United Kingdom 1.8 Yes
    Algeria 1.7 Yes
    Australia 1.7 Yes
    Bahrain 1.7 No
    Belgium 1.7 Yes
    Brunei 1.7 No
    Chile 1.7 Yes
    Cuba 1.7 Yes
    Czech Republic 1.7 Yes
    Finland 1.7 No
    Georgia 1.7 No
    Latvia 1.7 No
    Lebanon 1.7 No
    Maldives 1.7 No
    Netherlands 1.7 Yes
    St. Lucia 1.7 No
    Trinidad and Tobago 1.7 No
    United Arab Emirates 1.7 No
    Uzbekistan 1.7 No
    Vietnam 1.7 Yes
    Armenia 1.6 No
    Barbados 1.6 No
    Bulgaria 1.6 No
    Canada 1.6 Yes
    Estonia 1.6 No
    Germany 1.6 Yes
    Liechtenstein 1.6 No
    Lithuania 1.6 No
    Luxembourg 1.6 No
    Montenegro 1.6 No
    Romania 1.6 Yes
    Slovenia 1.6 No
    Albania 1.5 No
    Austria 1.5 No
    China 1.5 Yes
    Moldova 1.5 No
    Monaco 1.5 No
    North Macedonia 1.5 No
    San Marino 1.5 No
    Serbia 1.5 No
    Spain 1.5 Yes
    Switzerland 1.5 No
    Thailand 1.5 Yes
    Ukraine 1.5 Yes
    Andorra 1.4 No
    Belarus 1.4 No
    Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.4 No
    Croatia 1.4 No
    Cyprus 1.4 No
    Greece 1.4 Yes
    Hungary 1.4 No
    Italy 1.4 Yes
    Japan 1.4 Yes
    Malta 1.4 No
    Mauritius 1.4 No
    Poland 1.4 Yes
    Portugal 1.4 Yes
    Slovak Republic 1.4 No
    Korea 1.2 Yes
    Singapore 1.2 No
     
  14. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    You should be making plans for Niger then
     
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  15. xtomx

    xtomx Member+

    Chicago Fire
    Sep 6, 2001
    Northern Wisconsin, but not far from civilization
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    We only want what's best for them?
     
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  16. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do a search of the first two paragraphs and that will give you the answer. Not going to promote the link.
     
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  17. LastBoyscout

    LastBoyscout Member+

    Mar 6, 2013
    Yeah I already found it.

    Funny that the only concrete policy suggestions I could find on that page are:
    "Stop immigration." and "Stop foreign aid unless countries implement population growth restriction policies."

    Of course without outlining any of those policies. Unless you count "Telling people that overpopulation is bad." as a policy...
     
  18. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't even get that far...and stopping foreign aid is a rather Draconian response to overpopulation.
     
  19. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Have they? Not in Roppongi, at least.
     
  20. Pro-Freedom

    Pro-Freedom Member

    Apr 3, 2017
    Over-population is nothing but a myth. It is usualy sensationalized and made into a issue by the racist, capitalist, and elitist stance fostered by Western society who face demographic decline.

    The main issue is inequality.

    1% of the world’s population controls over half of the world’s wealth.
    And most of the wealth in the world is largely based in Western/westernized nations. which is conveniently ignored.
     
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  21. Pro-Freedom

    Pro-Freedom Member

    Apr 3, 2017
    #46 Pro-Freedom, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
    Also, the claims of overpopulation in African and Asian countries seem to reveal the glaring hypocrisies. In the quest to preserve the excessive global resource explotation of poor countries, over-consumerism and hedonism of the West, marginalized poor people abroad are told to breed less, while people domestically are told to breed more to preserve national identities and maintain a decent population size.

    China’s one child policy, which gave a huge gender gap, should serve as a example of why such western myth must be abandoned.

    It is foolish to presume that having fewer children is the key to abject poverty.

    Our self-indulgence has a cost, and that cost will be paid when God asks us about what we did with the comfort and prosperity He blessed us with.
     
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  22. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Actually, Western comfort and prosperity is neither the result of the alleged work ethic nor is it a gift from God.
     
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  23. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
    Overpopulation was a big problem in China and India. That's why China forced people to get no more than one child, and that's why India forced sterilization on men because its population size limits were reached. It's a brutal way of population control, which can be prevented if a nation's birth rate is around 2 with affordable contraception and good family planning out of free will. And indeed, underpopulation can also be a problem. Singapore for example has a total fertility rate around 1, which means there will be too much elderly people dependent on the workers. A total fertility rate above 2.5 is also problematic, because it will result in more mass poverty, environmental problems, unemployment, terrorism and so on. If a too large part of the population is a child, there won't be enough funds for decent education systems, which are crucial to develop into a developed nation. Africa's birth rate is keeping the continent poor. If we want to take the next step in development, we need birth rates in Africa which are comparable with the highest developed countries in the world. A TFR between 1.5 and 2.5 is healthy, higher or lower is problematic on the long-term. If we want to get rid of mass poverty, it's crucial to get a total fertility rate around 2. You can see it in the list, the countries with the highest TFR are the poorest and the countries with the lowest TFR are among the richest in the world. Niger is the country with the highest TFR, they're also the poorest country in the world. That's no coincidence.

    Africa's high birth rate is keeping the continent poor:

    https://www.economist.com/middle-ea...high-birth-rate-is-keeping-the-continent-poor
     
  24. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    High birthrates are as much a consequence of poverty than a cause of poverty. It also circles back around to the status of women. The Middle East which has extreme wealth still has some of the worlds highest birthrates. If I remember correctly Jordan has lower birthrates than Saudi Arabia this being and indication that woman's status is more important than wealth.
     
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  25. tfrunited

    tfrunited Member

    May 7, 2019
    Saudi Arabia has a total fertility rate of 2.0 currently, which means a declining population without immigration.
     

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