#OurCoachWasAGKTactics

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by 15 to 32, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Often times I watch RSL lately and wonder "what the ******** is the idea here". I've dubbed this #CassarTactics and continue to watch in frustration. I was thinking over the past few days, though, what if I'm missing the idea simply because I don't like it? I'll admit bias, I like my soccer played a certain way. Thus, it's very likely that I could simply not be seeing the idea Cassar has because I just don't like what it is - even if it's in front of my face the whole time. So I went about trying to figure this out the best way I think I could - with statistical renderings.

    Thanks to @DrownedElf I have looked over the heat maps for the last two RSL games over on whoscored. I had tried to get this data for the last 8 or so games of the 2016 season but finding this data is proving difficult. With that said, it has to be noted that no real true analysis of the team can be derived. Two games is not anywhere near large enough of a sample size. However, we can get some ideas and see if trends continue.

    RSL v TFC:
    RSL Team as a whole:
    upload_2017-3-17_11-16-39.png

    RSL w/out Nicky
    upload_2017-3-17_11-17-56.png

    Instantly the thing that jumps out to me is the complete lack of midfield presence. We're working in two blocks. This actually lines up with what is being seen from the team. There is a desire to quickly move the ball upfield. Which is just another way of saying bypass the midfield.

    Another interesting note is how evenly we spread the ball. I'd imagine a heat map from the days of the diamond wouldn't have anything close to this width. The exception being the right wing actually extending into the gap on the outside of the 18. God, what we could do with an outside back who was dangerous..
     
    rslfanboy, Ivensor, pcny and 1 other person repped this.
  2. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    RSL v Chicago
    (attacking to the left)
    upload_2017-3-17_14-7-8.png

    w/out Nicky:
    upload_2017-3-17_14-7-30.png

    The midfield would appear to not be as skipped in this match, but it's important to remember that RSL was down in this match by 2 goals just 15 minutes in. Again, the width of the field is being used. Especially the wings, this game with more of a focus down into the left side.

    An interesting bit about this one is the blue gap in the middle of all that green and yellow. In the literal middle of the heatmap for RSL, there is a gap. We aren't using the middle of the pitch to build an attack. We're swinging wide and then cutting in.

    A third heatmap I found interesting from this game:
    upload_2017-3-17_14-54-38.png
    This is Albert Rusnak. This is not what I want my number 10s heat map to look like, honestly. Far too wide, IMO, for what a 10 should do
     
    Allez RSL, rslfanboy, Ivensor and 7 others repped this.
  3. pcny

    pcny Member

    Sep 2, 2007
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Very good stuff (from 15, that is). Amazing how reality matches the perception!
     
  4. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cross post from @stucknutah in the Fire Cassar thread. I honestly wonder if he can't figure out how to coach the attack because he was a GK in his career. He's used to seeing the game from the back, and not necessarily caring about what the offense is doing since it wasn't his job. Could be partly why JK wound up being a better coach. He got the necessary assistants to help with the defense, while he was more able to coach the midfielders and forwards.

    I lean towards Cassar just not being good enough in general, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lack of offense is due to him never playing in those position.s
     
    SpiffCoug repped this.
  5. Callgolf

    Callgolf Member

    Jan 7, 2012
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    That has always been my feeling about him, name one successful world class manager that was a goalkeeper. Sure, there are a few GK managers that have bounced around different leagues, but for the most part there isn't consistent proven success of GKs becoming good managers. It's a totally different world back there, he doesn't really understand the intricacies of the field player game.

    This might also be why our offence has been reduced to long ball, actually, I hesitate to even call it long ball because that would indicate we had a tall, knock down CF. We just play boot it and run on to it now, because that's what Jeff saw as successful for him in his GK career, I boot it up there and the outfield players take care of it from there.
     
  6. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    JK didn't just hire people to make the defense, he personally emphasized it. All the players had to play defense, too.
     
  7. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The most successful coach in MLS history was a goalkeeper in his playing days.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. PattysCow

    PattysCow Member+

    Apr 4, 2010
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Wasn't he playing on the wing with his last club?
     
  9. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    really? From that haircut, I thought it was a girl.
     
  10. SALTLAKEJAKE

    SALTLAKEJAKE Member

    Jul 9, 2010
    Sugarhood
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    v HOU

    v HOU.png

    v FCD
    v FCD.png

    v San Jose v SJ.png

    v Sporting v SKC.png
    v Seattle
    v Seattle.png

    For comparison, here are the last 5 games of 2016. You can tell where Burrito and Plata were playing much differently than we are now. Receiving the ball wide around midfield to carry it into the attack vs bypassing the midfield altogether as we are lately.

    Said this during the game on Saturday but it felt like Rusnak wasn't the link between the defense and the attack that he "should" be. Also felt like he didn't see a lot of the ball. In checking the stats just now I was wrong, he touched the ball 49 times second only to Tony.

    Any way, since 15 was looking for these and I was bored, here they are.
     
  11. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    RSL vs LAG (w/out Nicky) attacking to the right
    upload_2017-3-20_11-4-15.png
    Man, that is one weird ass heat map. Granted, it was going to be weird after the red card. I wish they had one of just the first half when KB was in. In fact, everyone's heat map is so weird in this game; it's hard to make anything out of it. What still exists, despite the man disadvantage, is that we're skipping the midfield - at least the middle portion of it - in an effort to push the ball forward faster wider.

    Interesting note: KB had 32 touches in this game in his limited time. Mulholland had 40 through the entire game. So, two things here: (1) KB was WAY involved while on the field and (2) Luke didn't make up for it AT ALL in the second half.

    Last part of this game - comparing Saucedo's heat map (first one below) to Lennon's (second) tells two very different stories of wing play.
    upload_2017-3-20_11-11-3.png
    upload_2017-3-20_11-11-11.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Lizzie Bee and Allez RSL repped this.
  12. goobx1

    goobx1 Member+

    Jul 9, 2007
    Salt Lake
    Maybe I'm in the minority but I am so tired of seeing long ball after long over the top for players to try and run down. Why does it always have to be a ball in the air? Get the ball on the ground and to the feet of Yura, Lennon, Bofo and anybody else and won't they have a better chance of making something happen.

    Yes, I'm a soccer tactics idiot but this just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
     
  13. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The occasional long ball can do wonders for a team. What's irritating (and readily apparent in the heat maps) is how frequent Cassar wants to do this. The moment the CB's or outside backs get a ball they are looking 50 yards away. They aren't looking to connect with the midfield in front of them. But even that's not fully true. Look how many touches KB had - it's what he (and Luke) is doing with the ball once they get it. Boom it. This is especially evident when you look at Rusnak's heat map. He's ********ing everywhere except where you'd think a 10 should be.

    Rusnak's LA Heat Map
    upload_2017-3-20_11-24-9.png
     
  14. Ivensor

    Ivensor Member

    Nov 10, 2011
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Here are all of RSL's touches in the 1st half, with Kyle on the field:
    RSLvLAG_1sthalf.png

    And here they are in the 2nd half, after the red card:
    RSLvLAG_2ndhalf.png

    While the effect of the red card is super apparent, even in the first half there is a gaping hole in the center-left of the field. We just aren't getting many touches in the center of the midfield.

    Two other things stand out to me: First, Lennon was creating a lot of havoc on his side of the field in the first half. In the second half, What little we did create mostly went up Bofo's side of the field.

    Second, the boom-ball approach is super apparent here. Just look at all of those really long, red arrows, even in the first half. Ugh.
     
    Lizzie Bee, DrownedElf, RSLer and 3 others repped this.
  15. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    SL,UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jesus, that's just insane, it's one thing to talk about the hoof it and hope strategy, but to see it in graphical form just makes me dizzy. I think a lot of lay-fans font really understand the concept of "boot ball" when people who have a more technical understanding of the game talk about, this would be a great way of displaying that in a form that's easy for those kinds of people to understand. This perfectly illustrates the lack of our midfield presence and just how much we blast the ball up field for someone to run on to. It'd be great if we could find these same "pass maps" from, say, 2010 when we freaking dominated possession and played out of the back through the midfield to the attacking third. I bet it'd be striking to see the difference.
     
    RSLer repped this.
  16. Ivensor

    Ivensor Member

    Nov 10, 2011
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    We can't see 2010 RSL, but 2017 Portland isn't a bad substitute. Check out Portland's chalkboard from their game against Houston and the difference is striking: http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter/2017-03-18-portland-timbers-vs-houston-dynamo/boxscore

    (sorry, I'm too lazy to screenshot and post again...)
     
  17. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This thread is now defunct.
     
    15 to 32 repped this.
  18. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not yet: goalkeeper coach Daryl Shore is the interim coach, so I am renaming this "#OurCoachWasAGKTactics" and we can see if there's correlation.
     
    15 to 32, Allez RSL, pcny and 1 other person repped this.
  19. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another problem with boot ball, is that it needlessly tires out your forwards. They're expected to run and try and get on the end of it, but often times the ball is played just out of reach, so they're sprinting for no reason. On top of it, even if they do get the ball, you rarely have more than one other player to play off of, so you're also expected to beat half the defense in order to make something happen. Sure, on occasion it can be a good thing, but if you're spending half the game doing this, you're just hurting yourself.

    It's the same thing about trying to go wide and cross into the box. Effective sometimes, but you can't spend most of the game doing it. Using low percentage tactics and trying to win with them is a recipe for failure.
     
    15 to 32, BalanceUT and pcny repped this.
  20. GoRSL

    GoRSL Member+

    Jan 7, 2013
    47.615587, -122.200340
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    If you watch much EPL or Bundesliga, there's a big, big difference in their long ball game vs. what RSL's 'boot ball' attempts.

    RSL's long game feels like less than even high school soccer. "Hey, Plato, Brooksie, Jordie, and Yurie are quick, so when we get the ball, they run hard and you kick it to them." The long balls out of the back seem a lot like Rimando's long kicks - hit it downfield and hope it gets to the right area and they've got a remote chance of touching it (while being abused by the much bigger defenders). Even Nick's distribution last game was frustratingly bad. The lack of big players in midfield and forward line is glaring obvious.

    In the EPL and Bundesliga, when teams get the ball, they typically move it up closer to midfield and then look for the cutting through ball (most often on the ground) that bypasses the back line to a forward that makes the quick cut right from edge of the defender's back line. Man City did that a number of times in their game this weekend vs. Liverpool, with some good 1-1 chances vs. the keeper.
     
    goobx1 repped this.
  21. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those usually rely on a DLP, like a prime Carrick who was great at picking out a long pass from the midfield. The big problem with how RSL does it, is that we're doing it from around our own 18, when most of the midfield is in that area as well since they were just helping defend. There's no chance of midfield support, and typically we either held up the ball waiting for support, allowing the defense to set up, or just passed it back which did the same thing.

    Another thing with crossing, is that we really need to get into better spots before sending it in. When you see better teams do it, they're often cutting into the area around the 18 and out of bounds line. Crossing it from there allows you to go low or high, which gives the defense less time to react due to the distance, or allows the wide player to cut in closer to goal if the option is there. The further out you cross from, the easier it is on the defense. I like the idea of getting in some crosses, but we don't have the outside backs for it, We also need to try and get the wingers closer to the 18 before crossing as well to help with our chances.
     
  22. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I don't understand the AGKTactics part. Please translate.
     
  23. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cassar was a GK. Shore is the GK coach, who is now the head coach. Just looking to see if his tactics are as bad as Cassar's since he's also a GK, or if it was just Cassar that is bad.
     
    15 to 32, Ismitje and El-ahrairah repped this.
  24. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would have said #OurCoachWasAGoalieTactics but then goalie is an American/Canadian-ism like calling the field a pitch, a uniform a kit, a manager a coach, etc.
     
  25. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd almost prefer something shorter like #GKTactics or #KeeperTactics. At least I can retire #CassarOut
     

Share This Page