Other Teams' Results [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by KMJvet, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Define best, please. He literally lied to fans directly about the Columbus situation and actively worked with the team's owners to move them from the city instead of investing to ensure the Columbus market (which is home the first MLS stadium ever) was engaged with the team. He did not facilitate bargaining in good faith with the referee union, resulting in a strike that produced games that were both complete farces and were increasingly risky for players due to the replacements being incapable to managing them properly. And those are just two somewhat recent events. Besides, being the best pro sports commissioner is akin to being the guy who only held you down while the others in his group punched you in the face repeatedly.

    Even if NYFC gets a stadium (which I'll only believe when it's actually finished), that doesn't negate the fact that the league boasted about a new standard for new investors to have stadium plans, concrete stadium plans essentially done by the time the team actually started playing its first games. It was complete BS, which shows that Garber is not a man about setting real standards, he's not interested in making sure the league operates on fair rules or is forthright to its customers. He's willing to throw any integrity away because there was a splash of cash.

    Now the league is stuck with a team playing in a matchbox completely unsuitable for the sport that it shares with another team that plays its game whose season is almost 100% the exact time frame of the MLS season. If you want to know, in part, why the MLS schedule is a complete dumpster fire, look no farther than NYFC's complete inability to set its own game dates.
     
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  2. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #5477 xbhaskarx, Feb 1, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
    Garber took a 10 team league that was hemorrhaging millions of dollars a year and on the verge of folding, and turned it into a 23 team league (24 with Miami) on the way to 28 with four more expansion teams including Nashville. The league currently has 12 different ownership groups / cities vying to pay $150-200 million each and build soccer stadiums for nine figures. The league is growing so fast that the owners are unilaterally moving to add millions in spending on player salaries beyond what the players union negotiated in the last CBA, first with TAM and now with Discretionary TAM (that we know the owners recently voted for unanimously).



    Complaining about NYCFC playing at $2.3 billion dollar Yankee Stadium is the definition of "first world problems" compared to what the league faced when Garber first took the job... heck as recently as 2010 the Kansas City Wizards were playing at CommunityAmerica Ballpark.
     
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  3. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, and up until a few years ago there was another team playing in a small college stadium with temporary bleachers.
     
  4. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    And a few years back that same team, ours, was not playing in MLS at all. Nor was Seattle or Portland. But Chivas USA was. And Colorado built a stadium without a supporters section. All on Don Garber's watch.

    One stupid league decision after another, including replicating Chivas USA in the Bronx, trying to get the Chivas USA band back together in South Central, and of course colluding to move Columbus to Austin. Not to mention the everyday endemic corruption in which the rules don't apply to favored franchises like NYCFC, which is what started this conversation. See also, Disco and LA Galaxy.

    There is an excellent case to be made that Don Garber's success came despite himself. The league would almost certainly be doing a lot better if it was run on auto-pilot by one of Google's driverless cars.
     
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  5. Goodsport

    Goodsport Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 18, 1999
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    Hm. In general you seem like a wise person. But it seems to me like in this case you are missing the forest for the few rotten trees. I don't think the argument that the US was finally ready for soccer and so any professional league was bound to succeed in spite of bad leadership has a lot of work to do to prove "it was different this time" rather than the pretty clear (to me): they did it better this time. Yes, many things have not been great (e.g. Columbus Crew), although anyone with experience leading a small group knows that 3/4 of the things that really drive the decisions are never made public, there are a lot of forces at work, just list to yourself the forces at work on a new stadium or team allocation and then ask for each one "does this entity work in a clear, transparent fashion". That is how much real knowledge we have about what the real options were and what drives them. You just have to judge a leader on their results. I think Garber has to be a success by that measure.
     
  7. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The way you talk about it makes it sound as if Garber single handedly turned the MLS ship around, which I don't think he did. Lots of things changed, some of which he was fortunate to have been where he was when they happened.

    I'm also not arguing that Garber hasn't made some smart decisions. My point is that he's a lying liar who lies and I would never assume that what he's doing is in the best interest to fans of the sport in the US, especially when he's demonstrated that he's willing to intentionally sabotage a team in order to move from one city to another for a free ride on a new stadium.

    The relationship between team owners/league officials and fans is adversarial in nature. There is no other rational way to view it. I don't accept that we should just pat a commissioner on his back because he's made some good decisions (or been very lucky to be commissioner when the tides changed). It is a job that requires constant scrutiny. You don't get a free pass on disgusting behavior just cause you did some good in the past.
     
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  8. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I don't disagree that Garber has been a success and that MLS has done things better than the original NASL. My point is that he is largely a success in spite of himself and could have done things better than he did on a whole variety of fronts.

    I could write a novel, but specially related to the current discussion about NYCFC's latest shenanigans, Garber's seeming unconcern with a sports league which appears fixed to favor teams in large TV markets may arguably be good for incremental short term ratings but will ultimately likely gravely harm the league. It simply does not look good when NYCFC appears to get a free pass on transfer rules.

    The Rule of Law is critically important, and I think leaders, especially those running sports leagues that purport to be on the up-and-up, should ultimately be judged by their adherence to its uniform application. Obeying the law is not simply for the Little People.
     
  9. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    I agree about the rule of law. I don't think anyone is violating the law here, taking law to mean "the rules as written". I do think the structure with NYCFC as a trans-league entity is weird and puts stress on the single-entity structure of MLS. I don't think the single-entity structure of MLS is the right solution for the future. (I think a good analogy is the current structure of the Chinese economy: needs to change, has been a success, many innocent people have been trampled, could have been far worse, could have been better)

    Currently the MLS is re-writing the rules every few months to try and get particular outcomes. Rules describe a process and, IMHO, are not supposed to define an outcome. I don't like Garber. I think there would have been other successful solutions to the same problem that would be more to my liking. But I don't think that most possible solutions would successful, I think it is amazing that anything has succeeded. If in 2000 you would have described to me the current state of the MLS, including all its warts, I would have declared it to be an amazing success.

    And I think no one can doubt that the owners agree.
     
  10. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Not that I care about Garber , Beckham or his expansion team in Miami but if they were going to paly in a temporary venue anyway, why not come out sooner?

     
  12. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Apparently the Beckham Miami effort was almost dead, until the Cuban-American Mas Brothers joined the ownership team in I think January. Because they are well-connected Cuban-Americans, who previously tried to buy the Marlins, it appears they are going to run the club and get the stadium built. There is local media speculation that they don’t like the current planned location. Beckham, Simon Fuller, Masayoshi Son and Marcelo Claure do not live in the area and will likely just be adding their beauty or billions. I expect Beckham will depart once the club actually gets ready to play, I’m sure he just wants to cash out.
     
  13. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    new National training center...

    Sporting Kansas City coach Peter Vermes directed a group of 35 people down a passageway Monday, serving as the unofficial tour guide for a $75 million structure. On his left, he pointed toward a cryotherapy room, designed to accelerate muscle recovery. On his right, there was a hypobaric chamber, a room with adjustable altitude. After a step backward, he explained the benefits of another space with motion analysis.

    And on it went.

    Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mls/sporting-kc/article198537254.html#storylink=cpy
     
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  14. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Kansas City, MO
    Tuesday 1:00 PM
    Cloudy
    [​IMG]
    18
    °F | °C
    Precipitation: 17%
    Humidity: 62%
    Wind: 6 mph

    ***
    Who needs $75mm facilities when you have blue skies and sunshine?!?:D
     
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  15. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. SalinasQuakesFan

    Mar 27, 2010
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    It means when they score 3 or more goals and get the win the casino will give them 100$ worth of chips to spend in the casino.
     
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  17. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, why are they in robes? And why would the owner(s) make such a pathetic announcement? It’s like out of the 1950’s
     
  18. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Have you seen their new kit? They'll be the Las Vegas Lights "rat pack"!

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    That is hardly an incentive to score goals. $100 in casino chips is not equal to an actual $100 dollars. Talk about a scam. I feel bad for those players.
     
  20. MtnGardener

    MtnGardener Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Jul 21, 2017
    I dunno. I have friends who can convert chips to $ at pretty close to even. Black jack and roulette are pretty easy to lose slowly at. And it sure beats the deal all the other deals I have heard of that other teams have to get extra free money when they score.
     
  21. SalinasQuakesFan

    Mar 27, 2010
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Maybe be a little more specific in what you are asking about next time.
     
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  22. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    It still essentially requires them to gamble money that they otherwise would have rightfully earned, which is inherently unfair. If they can simply cash out the chips as soon as they get them without having to play, it's a little better, maybe. It's still an unbelievably shady thing to do.

    Of course, I think incentive based pay is complete BS to begin with, especially in sports where so many things are out of the individual player's control. It's a pretty gross practice all around.
     
  23. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why is it a scam? It's a casino sponsor giving away the chips, not the team. If they hadn't signed the deal they would be getting nothing for scoring 3 goals and winning. After a few wins where they collect a nice stack of chips they can go and have a nice night out. And it's Vegas! How appropriate, and unique.

    No, it's part of a sponsorship deal, and the deal is they get chips, that's what they will rightfully earn.
    And did you see their jerseys? Neon lights!
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    It's inventively predatory in the way that the gambling industry has always been predatory. Trying to hand wave it away by saying "It's Vegas" is incredibly sad to me. If you can't see how this is designed specifically to take advantage of young players who don't earn much and can't really afford to potentially throw a bunch of money away through a "sponsorship" designed to entice these players into spending more more once they are inside the casino, then I don't know what to tell you.
     

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