Orange, the rebuild starts now

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by feyenoordsoccerfan, Oct 11, 2017.

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  1. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Boadu is yet another proof of how staying in Eredivisie is much more beneficial vs. going abroad. We've seen this movie played over and over again!!

    In Boadu's "graduating" year (born 2001), there are three promising strikers: Zirkzee, Redan and himself. Boadu is arguably the least-rated of all three, yet he has been progressing the farthest (so far), thanks to the developmental and essential playing times he's been getting.
     
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  2. And that with a black out because of his injury.
     
  3. Which players from the Eredivisie are now acting in the top 4 of the BuLi?
     
  4. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Locadia...? Read that he’s been doing quite alright lately. Grabbed a winner yesterday.
     
  5. wilson00

    wilson00 Member

    Oct 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    My focus is on two players whom I think should be going to the euros.El Ghazi and Groeneveld. I think El ghazi will be a good replacement for Babel and is techincally better than bergwijn, arieal threat, dribbling and overall physically .

    Groeneveld is in a tricky situation having proved himself at NT level and then switching to epl.Just recovered from a injury and is being sparingly used by eddie howie. He is definttely a player who doesnt need a second invitation but needs to prove he is fit and play regularly.


    Groeneveld-Malen- El Ghazi

    Depay

    Frenkie- Wijnaldum

    Blind-Van Dijk- De Ligt- Karsdorp

    Cillessen
     
  6. BaritoPutra

    BaritoPutra Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Koeman looks like a real genius (...not!), as Zoet was dropped to the bench by MvB today :p:D
     
  7. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Watched Ihattaren for 45 minutes just now, and I'm still not seeing anything special.

    And yes I know its a small sample size
     
  8. venema20

    venema20 Member

    Jun 17, 2014
    Didn't have a strong game today, but PSV is a mess right now. But again you're basing it off way too small a sample size. There is a reason he is known as one of the best prospects in the world of soccer.

    The biggest concern is Dumfries. Oh man he was awful today. Worst player on the pitch for me
     
  9. Jpows

    Jpows Member

    F.C. Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jun 4, 2018
    Literally picked the worst time to watch PSV and gauge the talent. Ihattaren, for me, is the best talent on Dutch football fields followed closely by Stengs and Boadu.
     
  10. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Luuk scored the winning goal for Sevilla today
     
  11. gabrielguilarte

    Feb 23, 2016
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Any hope on Che Nunnely? He is still 20 years old and scored two today against PSV...
     
  12. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    he is very fast but his ball control was not good when he was in the Ajax youth system. I think that's why they did not renew his contract. He will really have to show that he's corrected that part of his game.
     
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  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    There is in the Voetbal International an interesting look back to the infamous 12 october 2017 cover, the only time they used a black cover:

    [​IMG]


    Two years ago a VI appeared in which Dutch football was buried. The cover was black. There was a painful conclusion in small print. The Netherlands, it was said, had become a small football country. The end of an era was announced at the departure of the Big Four. Orange was put off as a team.

    The VI of 12 October 2017 stated that the new national coach should look more really at the available material. The bottom line was that we had to play football such as Gibraltar or San Marino. Like the cover, the message was jet black. At the European level, our teams went down against clubs from Luxembourg-level football countries. No club in a big competition dared to appoint a Dutch coach. Somewhere along the way they had missed a crucial turn with their ball possession. Arjen Robben was the only top football player we had in 2017. Stumbling, he represented our country. Every player or trainer with an inch of talent is forced to go abroad too early, and it is to be expected good generations will be incidental rather than structural.

    What remained were the memories and the photos. It is nice to read that ink-black VI with the knowledge of today. On page 73, for example, there is the following sentence in a piece about the Dutch Juniors: Frenkie de Jong played strongly against Latvia, but is still waiting for his final breakthrough.

    Erik ten Hag was FC Utrecht's coach two years ago. Urby Emanuelson says in the big VI interview that his coach thinks much more internationally than most of the coaches he worked with. "Ten Hag would be a good coach for the Dutch national team," he says in the play. It is also the headline. It is searching between the lines for something of positivity. To a starting point, a bright spot or something that trainers in need always see. Had someone told us two years ago that we are all running the coefficient polonaise here in the Netherlands because the Dutch clubs of craziness no longer know how to throw away European matches, that Orange would play against France, Germany and England with distinction, that Virgil van Dijk is the only competitor of Lionel Messi for the Golden Ball, the second man on the bench at Liverpool is Dutch [and from Limburg, hehe - PvH], that European top clubs would compete for the signature of Dutch top talents, that Ajax was a few seconds away from the Champions League final, then ... yes, then what? It is not as bad as it appeared and not as good as it should be.

    Our clubs, players and trainers are participating again. In France Football there was recently a long piece about the magician behind all Ajax successes. It was about the trainer of the future. The article must have landed on the offices of Paris Saint-Germain. If Thomas Tuchel needs a successor, someone will probably raise his finger and say, "Erik ten Hag."

    The definitive breakthrough of the waiting Frenkie de Jong has arrived. Nice how the truth on the field can change as soon as an unknown player turns power relations upside down. The peculiarity of the current situation is that it is perceived as completely normal that he has quietly played in the starting eleven at Barcelona. Ivan Rakitic may occasionally warm up and substitute, but Ernesto Valverde thinks twice before taking De Jong off the field. Even after defeats, he receives affectionate reviews in the local newspapers for his play. Two years ago Georginio Wijnaldum was billed with a 4.5 and 5 for his performances against Belarus and Sweden. He was a player who took possession of the ball in the wrong places and delayed the game rather than accelerated it. It is almost impossible to imagine that Wijnaldum is the same player who is now a 'Transformer' under Klopp, who can adequately fill every role and function in midfield.

    As a reader, I do not want to withhold a last sentence from that blackest VI that has ever appeared. "Against Willem II, the goalkeeper played his two hundredth Eredivisie match and it is clear that he is in his last season at PSV." Jeroen Zoet was alone in the players bus on this Sunday afternoon, dropped like a rock.


    --------------------------------------

    On the website there are also various good reader comments, like this one.

    "Our trainers still fall short. Ten Hag is an exception, the rest does not get anywhere outside the Netherlands. Arne Slot is an interesting trainer, whom I hope will break through, but is still very early in his career. It is typical that Feijenoord must fall back on Dick Advocaat and that they think of Guus Hiddink at PSV when they think of a replacement for Marc v Bommel. With Dutch trainers the bar is set so low when it comes to improving players and sharpening systems in a team, that is just distressing and I would not cheer too early that the leak is over. Indeed, the youth education in the Netherlands has greatly improved since especially since the introduction of twin games, roughly 10 years ago, but to help these young players further when they go to the Eredivisie, the level of the trainers has to rise sharply."


    Arne Slot is indeed an interesting trainer and one of the first products of the renewed trainer education.

    'Twin Games' (and other variants) are an invention of Cruijff, Jonk and his pals and it seems this is now having effects.
     
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  14. venema20

    venema20 Member

    Jun 17, 2014
    Looks like Netherlands will need a new manager after Euro 2020. All sources are indicating that Koeman is joining Barcelona for next year
     
  15. Unless we win the Euros with overwhelming power. He willnot let Louis van Gaal take them to the first WC title.:D
     
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  16. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    don't you know that Erwin is really the one calling the shots!!! Let Ronald go and Erwin will win it all.
     
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  18. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  19. Robert Eenhoorn in Studio Sport said, being asked about it that Aja with the rest of the Eredivisieclubs agreed, among other things to create more competition with high resistance levels resulting in ultimately top players for the Orange team, to have top academies at clubs with talents. All in the mindset keeping talents where they are and not snapped up by the richest, keeps the youth competition competitive strong and provides the resistance to grow in quality. The move Ajax made was from a mindset to weaken the competition to dominate the league.
    It's the opposite of a pyramid of players that begins broad at the bottom and in quality gets smaller moving towards the top, which is the intention of the agreements made. Ajax breaking that agreement means they strive towards a situation that in the end will turn in a thin pillar at the cost of Dutch football as a whole. If Ajax breaks down Dutch soccer's strength compared to all other leagues, the development pyramid, in the end the result will be the end of Dutch football in the world scene as the only mini country that competes with the big countries on a constant rate, which in the end will result in Ajax becoming a mini club without a league worth playing in.
    We as Dutch football are what we are as a result of the whole structure that exist now. If Ajax think it can be Bayern in the Netherlands they will in a decade after that goal realise it was a pyrrhic victory.
    Being Bayern in a league that is meaningless will in the end turn yourself into nothing as we're a small country and being Bayern here means being one eyed among the blind.
     
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  20. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    @feyenoordsoccerfan - pretty much agree with the post. However, it's a little more complicated than what is written. One needs to look at all the Ajax academy players who don't make it to the first team and move on. There are a lot of examples of that. If Ajax continue to purchase young foreign players there will be fewer first team opportunities and perhaps young players move on more frequently. Ajax also can make mistakes by selling players on that maybe they should have kept (RB Zeefuik who is playing very well at Groningen).

    What the league really needs is for Feyenoord to get out of the years long funk they are in and get competitive on a regular basis!!!!:cool:
     
  21. Frysk Bloed

    Frysk Bloed Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    So I will say this about the last game...it was definitely a breath of fresh air. Stengs didn't have his best game overall but his creativity was very welcome. Boadu looked fantastic out there playing with a point to prove, and I thought he was incredibly bright.

    Going forward this is what I think is our best XI:

    Cillessen
    Promes? - de Ligt - van Dijk - van Aanholt
    de Jong - Blind?
    Stengs - Wijnaldum - Boadu*
    Memphis​

    *Malen (I'm very high on Boadu but Malen has been great too)

    Still unsure as to who the best option is to partner de Jong. I'd be tempted to give Koopmeiners a look. If Blind has to be shoehorned into the team he might fit best beside de Jong there. I like Wijndal a lot and think he should have that spot but he hasn't even been called up so there's that. Promes did well at RB and the fullback position in general is becoming one of the best places to create chances from and having your creative players there is a good idea given they have the most time and space on the ball of any player, generally, that can affect the attack. I think Willems would also be worth another look as he's probably an even bigger offensive threat than PvA.
     
  22. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Blind is too slow these days to play in the MF. ETH tried this out with Ajax and quickly moved Martinez into the holding MF position and put Blind back at LCB. He is a really great passer of the ball but won't be a MF for this team.
     
  23. venema20

    venema20 Member

    Jun 17, 2014
    Tahith Chong the worst player on the pitch again today. Man he became bad quickly. Needs a move ASAP
     
  24. The story of the leavers, from top talent to the bin.
     
  25. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

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