Optimistic take on the year for USMNT

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Pragidealist, Nov 23, 2019.

  1. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You forgot Llanez. I think he's ahead of Mendez for sure and probably Ledezma. Once he Reyna and Weah start getting regular first team minutes they will join Pulisic and Morris in a ferocious competition for winger positions.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  2. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Yeah - I realized that afterwards. Lots of youth possibilities.
    I thought it was interesting that Dortmund might be pushing Reyna inside. That could help the US.
     
  3. Bite o' the Cherry

    Charlotte FC
    United States
    May 3, 2006
    Charlotte, NC, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This post, I predict, will not be popular owing to the opposite mindset expressed in the Einstein quote. Many humans are naturally fearful and pessimistic. Anyway, I enjoyed it!
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  4. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't be surprised when the USA sits out Qatar as well.
     
  5. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I’d bet money that they won’t. Not a lot of money but actual dimes and nickels.
     
    Magikfute repped this.
  6. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We'll see. I've seen him inside and out for the U17's and he appeared to be better at left wing. He's still very young though so who knows?
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think it's more likely he converts to striker than a central attacking mid. He used to play striker quite a bit with NYCFC.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  8. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    Yeah- I was influenced by one report. He's young - anything could happen. I watched a few Dortmund highlights and it wouldn't even surprise me if he transitions to a deep lying playmaker at some point bc of his smoothness on the ball.

    There is so much talent coming up through the youth- we just need them to break through. I don't really care what positions.

    I see a dozen different scenarios with a stable of guys like Busio, Mendez, llanez, gio, paxton, Konrad, ledezma to go with Adams, Mckenie, Steffen, Pulisic Sargent, Brooks, Weah and Dest- It provides lots of room for hope.

    They won't all pan out. Some just wont' break through. Some will have injuries but even with those caveats- its hard not to see a very talented USMNT roster in place by the next WC.

    Then we have guys like Long's interest from Europe- guys who are getting shots at playing at a high level. Cameron was a pretty late move. There will be others.

    The US just needs to keep on producing generations like this. If this can become the norm and not a one off set of generational talent- then the US really does have a chance to move up as a soccer nation. ;-)
     
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Having read the article, I think it is a bit optimistic for even me.

    I'm supportive of the US building a stronger idea of what to do when we do have possession. I'm a big fan of the idea that you need players to develop the small patterns of play that let you connect the back to the front as well as create chances in both open field and against a set defense. (I think it's especially important as we don't have a real target forward now, nor do we have one in the pipeline right now).

    We no longer have Bradenton or, more importantly, a Bayern or Barcelona. We're never going to see the best US players aggregating on the same two or three rosters. We used to have more cohesion than other national teams because we could be in camp more, because fewer of our players were at clubs across the world. We've lost that in the last decade and it's a reason (not the only) why we feel like we are underperforming now because outperforming then.

    So having these players learn their 2, 3, and four man games is vital to actually improving, both against world class competition but also just to ensure we dominate CONCACAF.

    My issue isn't that. I think our talent is actually capable of doing this now, and will be more capable in the future. No, I don't think we can go full tiki-taka against France, but we should be better than we are.

    What my issue is has been the implementation and the tactical choice around it. We focused on this to the exclusion of other things. I'd love to hear why Berhalter picked the passive mid-block defense ... but I suspect it was to actually generate more situations where we had to build out of the back. Basically to maximize the time of the game where we had possession in a non-transitional aspect while also not giving up goals. (And it's effective at not giving up goals, for the most part).

    But that was a mistake. It created a situation that was too hard. Adding possession should be adding a tool to the arsenal, not trying to replace what we do well wholesale with something we need to get better at.

    We should have implemented a press and aggressive defense first. This would keep us on the front foot, win us more games, and play to our strengths. We'd get a few more easy goals. And we'd still have enough time when opponents are bunkering to possess.

    It's important because the best possession teams also counterpress the heck out of the ball. This keeps teams from being passive, but it also maximized your own possession.

    So I'd love to hear from Berhalter (or Earnie) more details on this. What is the end state defense we are looking at? Did we focus too much on trying to implement this one phase of play at the expense of others?

    ----------------------------

    I've been a relatively large defender of a smaller pool, but I also have to say that I can't be as optimistic about the youth as you are.

    One, I think we're going to see a bust rate higher than anyone on this board is currently predicting. If we're taking the standard as what we want for Qatar 2022 to compete in the Group, or comparing to the 2020 World Cup roster, we simply need a lot of people to stay healthy or a lot of things to go right. I don't even want to name names, but there's already some of these young guys that look like they are longshots to reach that standard.

    Two, I do worry that Berhalter is too slow to integrate some of these U23s in time for WCQ. Or that US Soccer is too obsessed with the Olympics and is ignoring the risks of WCQ.

    This team as constituted absolutely SHOULD qualify, but it's not so talented that another 2018 is out of the question. Especially if our injury bug continues.

    But players like Pomykal (hurt), Robinson (both), Llanez, etc., need to be given the opportunity to challenge. I wish they had been in more camps to learn the system and their teammates.

    Everyone involved seems too risk averse to pull a guy straight from the Olympics (if we make it) and insert them into a lineup, and so it's far too likely right now we see Lovitz or Roldan in a WCQ.

    I think people are right to be worried about a lack of urgency. I don't have the same blanket concerns as everyone, but there is a TON of evidence that US Soccer simply thinks there's more time than there is.
     
  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You may be right but the qualifiers aren't all at once. If GB is cautious he could still introduce a player or two every international break. A trickle eventually becomes a torrent.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  11. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dortmund is a bit of an odd team in that they haven't had an out and out great striker since Aubameyang. I could see Reyna as a sort of Reuss starter kit or eventual replacement and bide his time filling in where a spot is available for a few years.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  12. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010

    I don't think people are right to have that sense of urgency. I think that is fan angst. The truth for me- is either we will get a good 3 players out of these or we wont. MLS and their academies have finally opened up a pipeline for young players in remote parts of the US to get noticed and flow to high level pros- or it not.. its a generational thing.

    An urgency doesn't' change those facts. The youth have to break out at their clubs. Sargent was a good example of everyone wanting him to be at his potential when he just wasn't there yet. That's true for all of these young guys. Once they "arrive" they will get called in. Dest and Sargent inclusion (along with Paxton before the injury) show that GB is just as eager for the talent infusion as we are.

    IF they arrive and IF they break through and IF we finally have a real pipeline- the sense of urgency one way or another won't change those things. IMO- you can worry about all that could go wrong or enjoy what could go right. The truth will probably be somewhere in the middle.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    If the goal is to bring a player in before the World Cup, sure.

    But there's only five weekends of World Cup Qualifying, and every dropped point is closer to not qualifying. Not taking every match seriously was an issue last time.

    We should not see Lovitz or Roldan out there for any of these matches. Ideally, players like Zardes and Yeuill will also be overtaken by better options as well.

    Getting off to a good start in WCQ is vital.
     
    sXeWesley, Patrick167 and UncagedGorilla repped this.
  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I'm not going to go in depth, step by step. I think the biggest difference is that I can't agree with the idea that seems to be implied in your answers that missing the Qatar World Cup is acceptable.

    I don't think it is. I think it is much more problematic that you think.

    I think it's a huge step back. I think a World Cup run, especially in the run up to 2026 will both drive intense interest in our American leagues -- MLS, USL, etc., which support those academies that the entire development plan relies upon.

    It's also going to push kids to play soccer -- including a few kids who would have chosen other sports.

    And last, it's going to help US Soccer's revenue stream drastically, for coaching programs, etc.

    If the team can get healthy, it's going to be better going into qualifying than it is right now: Altidore, Weah and Adams all drastically improve this team.

    But given the likelihood of injuries, the development and integration of some of the young players can be the difference between a borderline qualifying effort and a slam dunk effort.

    And while development isn't going to happen with the Nats -- as you say, it happens when it happens -- integration is something that needs to happen with the Nats.

    And right now, we could use clear upgrades to: Left Back, Central Midfield, CAM/Wing and Striker.

    These spots are where identification or integration could still really help the team. And Berhalter has been VERY slow.
     
    sXeWesley and Patrick167 repped this.
  15. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    I agree on Roldan but otherwise? I’m think you’re under rating them. You’re so over rating kids who aren’t there yet. I’m rewatching the first Canada game and Sargent and Mckennie were big problems. Youth are both blessing and a curse.

    I’m saying this group can do what they need to do next year. It’s a long, slow cycle. This group made it all the way through the gold cup and lost 0-1 to Mexico. They beat Canada 4-1 after a shocking performance before. All indications are this group can get it done to qualify.
     
  16. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    At no point did I say missing Qatar was ok. I said the group we have can qualify. Then we should see a progressively better squad between now and the next World Cup
     
  17. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I don't think anyone thinks it's not an absolute total disaster to miss Qatar. If qualifying looks a complete mess then the Fed needs to do whatever it takes to not miss again. I doubt the kids will be experienced enough to make noise at the upcoming WC but they definitely need to be there and the team needs to be there for us fans so we don't desert. It's a balancing act to bring in an advanced system, blood new players and qualify all at the same time but qualifying is job #1.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  18. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    completely agree- and this is likely a big reason Berhalter was hired. Who else would want that job unless they have a big passion for USMNT.

    that and needing the Dutch background- how many candidates are out there?
     
  19. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would imagine Berhalter's main competition were Dutch coaches that Earnie thought about in his mind or had short conversations with in the lost year to gauge their interest. Seems like none of them had any interest hence the Berhalter hire. I wonder if he waited the year because he thought a Dutch coach might become available and it didn't work out. Otherwise I don't get the wasted year for Berhalter to stick around for an owner who sandbagged his team and had them leaving town.
     
    Pragidealist repped this.
  20. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    The Gold Cup is at home. They didn't play any Hex teams except Jamaica and Mexico and went 1-1.

    Why do you think it is slow? In two months, starting next September (10 months away), we will have played 6 of 10 games. One early season injury to any key player and they could miss 60% of the Hex.

    The only optimistic take about 2019 is that Gregg learned his big experiment was a failure. That these last two games are going back to square one. That next January and March will be a search for new talent. That the idea he could hand pick 14 MLS guys and teach them to play as Man City won't work.
     
    sXeWesley, DHC1 and Namdynamo repped this.
  21. Pragidealist

    Pragidealist Member+

    Mar 3, 2010
    That’s not happening
     
  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    great. We’ve materially lowered our chances of qualifying then. Still more likely than not but not as high as it should be.
     
  23. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    While the jury is still out on Berhalter, the young talent looks promising, Gregg has been pretty good about playing it, and I expected some up-and-down performances.
     
  24. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006

Share This Page