One v One moves......

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by ppierce34, May 31, 2019.

  1. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's a line between showboating versus experimenting.

    Most tricks are not fundamental skills, and there's a case to be made for stressing the latter at a young age in order to develop good technique, muscle memory, etc.

    A young player should not be constantly trying new things like he saw in a Champion's League highlight or playing FIFA video games. Then he/she is just screwing around. But coaches need to recognize that kids need to enjoy the game, and they need to be free to try things. It always amazed me how many coaches and parents at youth soccer games thought that making a mistake was a terrible thing, even though most of them would acknowledge that in most areas of life, making mistakes are how you learn.

    The example I used--passing with the outside of the boot--isn't even really a "trick." It's a recognized skill and many coaching materials and resources teach how to do it well. Many famous players are known for being particularly good at it (my son idolized Isco when he was young). His coach wasn't yelling at him for trying to something flashy and unnecessary, he for some reason didn't want his players learning a skill which is admittedly harder but not at all superfluous.
     
  2. ppierce34

    ppierce34 Member

    Aug 29, 2016
    Fort Wayne, IN
    It all comes down to parents and coaches caring WAY too much about winning at an early age. Mistakes are perceived as something that will get in the way of winning.

    Pass the ball in the middle in front of your own goal, god forbid you may let up a goal. Try a step-over and the other team steals it, god forbid they go down and score and you lose by 1 goal. Try to dribble out of your own defensive end instead of "clearing it" god forbid you lose the ball, the other team scores and you lose by one goal. Try to take a player on 1v1 instead of passing it and you lose it, god forbid your team missed a chance to score a goal. It all comes down to only caring about winning. This happened several times during my sons last game; other team had the ball on our side, defender flew in and booted it out of bounds giving up a corner. Parents and coaches cheered several times like this was a good thing. That is something that only should occur out of absolute desperation and only then should you cheer for saving a goal.

    My son is a U9 he's SEVEN years old and parents are bragging about our team being 3-0. Who gives a crap?? They must think i'm a monster for not caring about our record.
     
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  3. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    I didnt word it very well. Agree with what you are saying here. I just meant something like "Good try Johnny, way to be creative" rather than "Good move Johnny ... unlucky" for a move that was poorly executed.
     
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  4. CoachP365

    CoachP365 Member

    Business Metrics SC
    Apr 26, 2012
    LIke most things - it depends. I've had a lot of kids that refuse to pass with their left foot instep. They instead do the outside of the right foot stab pass. There are times where passing with the outside of the foot is the right move, there are times where it's a bad shortcut learned by kids who don't want to work on using both feet.

    As a coach, I'd make sure to let the player know when it was the right decision.
     
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  5. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see what you mean, but I actually don't think either of those are bad options.
     
  6. ppierce34

    ppierce34 Member

    Aug 29, 2016
    Fort Wayne, IN
    I'm just happy a thread other than Chicagoland Girls is getting repsonses!
     
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  7. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I should've made it clear--my son was already solid technically. His strength was ball control, first touch, and passing. He completed 99% of his passes with the standard technique. He wasn't doing all sorts of crazy things all the time.

    Absolutely you should work on your weaker foot. I wasn't suggesting that using the outside of your foot is a substitute for that.

    All he did was try a passing technique he'd seen professionals use. And his coach told him not to do it at all even though it worked.

    I don't think that's the right approach.
     
  8. Cantona's Eyebrow

    Dirty Leeds
    Togo
    Oct 8, 2018
    To change the angle of the pass without shifting his body shape, I'd have recommended that he use the instep of his other foot.

    Agree with your final paragraph though.
     
  9. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    Agreed. Quick, smart accurate passing will get get your child further than fancy moves that slows down the game. Master a turn and a fake to get out of pressure. That's all that's needed really. Creativity is not ball tricks it's clever runs or positioning or shooting from distance and difficult angles.
     
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  10. Backyard Bombardier

    Backyard Bombardier New Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 25, 2019

    Great observation IMO. My daughter’s team primary is suffering from this malady…the coach is working hard to improve their passing game for national league competition, but there are a handful of girls who consistently get caught up doing foot-tricks and blow up the shape and rhythm, and usually wind up losing the ball. At U11 it was cute; at U13 its annoying.



    This is the exact point I have been trying to drum into my daughter’s head; as a Left Back, she doesn’t NEED to do the Maradonna or whatnot, just have two well-drilled moves to escape pressure. Her dribble skills are very underdeveloped and she winds up playing very conservatively, or making risky passes, because she doesn’t want to be embarrassed by losing the ball or being compared to the Forwards' footwork.


    I finally told her that she’s putting cap on playing career by dodging the work needed to accomplish this, and I think its sunk in. Time will tell.
     
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  11. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    I'm going to disagree a bit with the above two posts. Should be mastering the ability to control the ball and move with it, not a specific move or turn.
     
  12. smontrose

    smontrose Member

    Real Madrid
    Italy
    Aug 30, 2017
    Illinois, NW Suburb
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    my u16 boy is in training pool with DA, scrimmaging and playing against in League play.
    these kids must be very very good as they are thumping other DA's
    Anyway, nothing fancy 99.9 of the time, because they have such great ball control, I mean the ball is glued to their feet... They are able to get defenders off balance. all it takes is getting them to weight the wrong foot and they're gone.
    Multiply that times 11!
    With that they are accurate with passing and receiving the ball. They receive the ball while they are already making their next move.
    Very basic. Very expert.
    I've never encouraged my kid to get fancy but now I'm emphasizing ball control /touch even more and have him thinking about the importance of balance.

    If you have not, take your kids to see some good DA play.
     
  13. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    I'm saying either 1 touch and pass or a simple move or turn to get out of pressure. Nothing fancy.
     
  14. ppierce34

    ppierce34 Member

    Aug 29, 2016
    Fort Wayne, IN
    What is wrong with a simple step-over or scissors to get a defender off balance which can open up passing lanes?
     
  15. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    @ppierce I'm referring to those fancy moves that don't really benefit play. The full scissor doesn't seem like a move to beat the defender. It more of a move to freeze a defender and slow up play to gain the dribbler more time to look up the field or wait for support or whatever. Most kids look stiff and unnatural or selfish when they do it and use it at the wrong time and lose the ball.

    I was saying to the OP that young players don't need a lot of fancy moves to beat a defender. But they need one or two basic ones - step over or pull back, etc. Whatever works best for each individual player to lose a defender or change direction when under pressure. Keeping in mind that what works well for one player might not work well for another player. Sometimes a simple quick fake and change of pace is all that is needed.

    I still stand by what I said.


    This is the kids forum not the pro forum.
     
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  16. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    #41 NewDadaCoach, Sep 28, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
    I'm torn on this point. If a kid is an excellent dribbler and can utilize that skill for scoring, why not? I mean, if Messi had been told that early on, would he have become as aggressive a dribbler as he is today (would it have affected his killer mentality which certainly has some effect in his ability to power through)? I feel this is one reason the USA does not have a Pele/Messi/Ronaldo/etc level player. Because it's always "about the team"... I feel we should encourage kids to develop their "super powers" if they are so gifted with them.
    I also don't think "moving the ball as a team" and dribbling past the defense have to be mutually exclusive. Barca does both extremely well; depends on the situation.
    I guess if a kid is dribbling and losing the ball or running out of steam, then sure, that's a sign he should pass more, but if he's scoring while being a "ball hog" I think that's great.
     
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  17. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    What do you think would happen if all the players in a game are ball hogs with super powers?
     
  18. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    They would win?
     
  19. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    Of course, but don't stress if your child isn't throwing a fancy move in every single game.
     
  20. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Definitely
     
  21. pu.ma

    pu.ma Member

    Feb 8, 2018
    or they could tie too, lol. My point is that it's all relative. Your little Messi will no longer play like a superstar if all the other players are of a similar ability. I think that is the reason why there are fewer and fewer standouts as the little ones grow into big kids, not coaches forcing players to stop hot dogging.
     
  22. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Yes generally I agree. My point is, there are no Messi's in the USA. We have zero players at that level despite pouring massive resources into development. So clearly our philosophy is not perfect. Sure we create very good players but not super elite players. Because to be super elite you must be pushed to develop your "super power" not suppress it. It's partly a psychological thing. At leas that's my perception; I could be wrong. But that's what I see at a high level when I compare the various soccer cultures around the world.
     
  23. SuperHyperVenom

    United States
    Jan 7, 2019
    I don't watch the US men, so I can't comment on them.

    From approx U15 coaches start spending A LOT of time during practice on defending - positioning, pressing and transitioning, etc as a team. Not so much on attacking. Is it possible that the defenders and GK's improve more than the strkers because of this and then it's not so easy any more for little Messi to score.

    With less time spent at practice on finishing (as much as I hated to spend money on a private one-on-one coaching) we did and it paid off.
     
  24. NewDadaCoach

    NewDadaCoach Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 28, 2019
    Perhaps it is just coincidence that we haven't created a Messi level player. He is one in a billion. Each sport has a few, we have Jordan, we have Tiger Woods, we have Michael Phelps. But we did not create Usain Bolt. He's from little ol' Jamaica of all places. So maybe there is more randomness to this than I am giving credit to. Maybe our soccer development and our soccer mindset is just fine. Well, considering our USMNT I guess there are some pain points. Well this is all over my head. I'll shut up now
     
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  25. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a valid point.

    I still think there's something wrong with our development, but the problem isn't that we haven't yet produced a Messi.
     

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