I think it's largely due to the midfielders (Boxx & Lloyd, particularly) not showing for the ball. When the defense wins the ball B&L tend to be invisible, hence all the looooong balls to the forwards. And, our forwards weren't coming back to win those balls. The Brazil defenders were coming after those 40 yard balls more aggressively, so very few (none?) of the long passes from our defenders reached our forwards.
I read you clear! wasn't implying she take a look yet until maybe 3 month in the season and maybe the play off if they make it....
I just watched the game again last night (first half, at least, then I fell asleep). Boxx and Lloyd were very active checking back to the defenders. Much of the time they were man-marked by a Brazilian player, so they would have to play the ball back, or peel off to the side, which opened up the middle for the longer through pass to a forward checking back or an outside mid checking inside (saw passes through to HAO, Tarpley, Abby, and Arod checking back). Then they would look to connect with Boxx or Lloyd if they received it cleanly. How about that time HAO received the ball wide, turned, and threaded that beautiful diagonal pass to Abby that she put just wide? That was a terrific play. And there was the one cheeky little sequence where Boxx passed it back, turned, and the defender chipped it over her onto her feet and she had a nice little run. Neither of those plays would have happened last year. Could the two central players have demanded the ball more? Sure, Lloyd even said so in the halftime interview. But I don't think they were as invisible as people are saying. I do agree that they both get caught upfield at times and Brazil was taking advantage of that space behind them in the first half. As I recall from my first viewing of the game, they improved on that defensively in the second half. Couldn't say from last night, since I was busy watching the inside of my eyelids after halftime. While some of the counter-attacks do make me nervous, I'm not sure I would mess with the chemistry in the mid-field at this point, especially since they've got to come up with something new up top. Someone refresh my memory--wasn't there a game at the Peace Queen cup when Abby didn't start? What was the forward pair that started that game?
most coaches would leave the team as much in tact as possible. let's look at each part of the team. i doubt that pia will change the defense - they've been playing as a well knit group for a while. pia says that she wants to advance the offensive game in women's soccer the same way the german team advanced defense in the women's game. i hope she doesn't use boxx and lloyd too high in order to do that. most posters agree that boxx should stay back more, and i concur. the forwards and amids is where most of the work should be done in the next few weeks. work, work and more work should be the order of the day until the right combination is found. the only change i would make is tarpley up front with arod, with either hucles or heath at left mid. but i don't really know how cheyney fits into this mix. if she is really the goal scorer at this level that she has been at the youth level, then she is the forward to replace abby for now. and we can leave tarpley at left mid. btw, what's all this moaning and crying and whining. this is the greatest opportunity that this team has been offered in many years. i don't see any way that pia will be fired and the team criticized unless she really doesn't get them out of the group - and that's not gonna happen. there's nothing to lose, and there's the impossible to achieve. that's just a ready-made american challenge!! this team will step up their game, and we'll see great things out of arod, hucles, lloyd, hao and tarpley. they'll show pia how it's done. mark my words! the stage is set!
I remember a Ryan quote (I know insert eye roll here) about Tash. He said one of her issues regarding her development as a player was the fact that she has spent much of her time in programs that were built around her, like the University of Hawaii. He mentioned she would have been better off at a top tier school that required her to conform to a system instead of the other way around. I'm not saying that is the truth I'm just throwing it out there as another take on the uniqueness of Ms. Kai. What I do believe is that all the players need to come up big if we are going to medal, but Kai is one of the players that needs to come up big in particular.
Based on her style of play I agree with others that see her as a great sub. She can't keep that pace up for 90 minutes, but she can for 30-45 minutes. Pairing Arod up with a Hucles, Lloyd or even a Wagner up top would give the U.S. a target player to hit who could then deliver a cutting pass behind the defense that Arod could run onto. Kai comes on to spell the other forward and to drive a tired defense nuts in the second half. Not to mention she seems to bring an attitude that the rest of her team feeds off of.
I guess I'm in the minority. I think Kai and A-rod are both starters. The are both fast, both finishers and both have the ability to turn and beat players.****A-rod is a better dribbler but both have speed and finishing skills.****Kai IS in game shape and I do think still improving every outing. What I think has not been talked about is HAO's inefficiencies the last few months. I don't think she has played well since early in the season.**** What has she really contributed latey?**** Do we need her speed with Arod and Kai starting or would Hucles stability and all around game be better match for the two forwards? HAO has 4 goals and 5 assists this year Kai has 12 goals and 6 assists this year. HAO has played over 400 more minutes this year. I'd like to see Hucles get more time with Abby's experience now gone. I'd like to see Box sit back a little now that Abby's incredible work rate and ability to clog some of the middle is missing. Now that the team is ultimately faster with arod and kai on the field at the same time, we need to spread the field more and take advantage of our strengths. starting line up: solo mitts, rampone, kate, chupa hao, boxx, llyod, tarp****- HUCLES in immediately if any of the four is having a bad day or in place of HAO. arod, kai Tobin****/****Wagner also important subs. Tobin to break down tired defenses. Wagner if we're down late. Concerns: Boxx's defense. Lloyd's defense. Lloyd's turnovers. Boxx and Lloyd of out position. Set pieces. The entire teams first touches. I do think this team has huge heart and will step to the plate. It's easy to see how hungry they are. They have a lot to prove and I'd jump for joy and send them all flowers and beer if they won gold.
So... What do you think that Wagner can provide late and down that she can't provide starting? Do we wait until other players muck things up before she can come in?
Cool, thanks for the courteous reply, while disagreeing. Lot's of folks have to get all p*ssed off when they disagree. You didn't. Props (and rep).
Lloyd and Boxx have both started and played every game they were eligible for. They have been playing all year to build chemistry. Pia's belief is these two are our starters. I think it's too late in the game to make Wagner a starter and I also question Wagner's game readiness due to injuries. I think Wagner is a better at delivering the ball to the final third at the end of the day, which could be vital late in the game.
I would love to see more of Wagner, but I have to agree with Brooklyn that I'm not sure she can go a full 90 and, to me, that means a second half sub. I also agree with the HAO assessment (have stated it many times) but I'm conflicted as to why she disappears in games (as does Tarp). After re-watching the Brazilian matches I don't think it's their fault. I really see this as a central midfield issue, or a scheme issue. Since all of our midfielders go forward, directly, at the same time it makes it very difficult for indirect play. If you aren't playing indirectly the outside midfielders aren't going to see much of the ball. They are bypassed. I think that is what's going on here and no matter who you play out wide, if the team continues its current style those players won't see the ball that much. What I would like to see is a lot more lateral movement out of our midfield. Overlapping and diagonal runs through the midfield to create space and passing lanes. This would really open things up for a front line of Arod and Kai who like to run onto balls and drift wide.
I don't think there is a question about Wagner's game readiness. You don't select players for National teams who aren't fit. With only 16 field players, you can't afford to. Lloyd and Boxx have been playing to build chemistry and still haven't really built any that I can see. I question whether just the fact that they started is a selection criteria. They have showed a lot of holes in their games lately, IMO. Pia had a nice little experiment to see if they could work together and thus far they haven't. Time for plan B. You still haven't explained what soccer skill Wagner has that is only good late in games when you are behind. If you can deliver balls into the final third, then you can do it. It's not a time related skill. I have never heard of a skill that is only valuable when you are behind. Controlling play is just as important if you are ahead. Wouldn't it make sense to use her offensive skills early and use her until she tires and then bring in the others if she needs the rest? The National team made the same mistake with Shannon MacMillan years ago. I'm not saying Wagner is Shannon, but she is a playmaker who makes those around her better, a skill sorely lacking on this team. I cite the Norway game in the World Cup - the only game where the US looked like they knew what they were doing.
See my previous post. If she wasn't fit she wouln't be on the roster. On another post you said: We both agree the midfield isn't working. The only difference I see is that you want Chalupney there, and I want Wagner, who would be playing her natural position.
((( don't think there is a question about Wagner's game readiness. You don't select players for National teams who aren't fit. With only 16 field players, you can't afford to.))) I did not say Wagner wasn't fit. I said she wasn't game ready, perhaps. Meaning the last two years and more importantly this last 9 months she's only played in 5 or so games and so does not have the readiness the other players (ie Boxx, Lloyd, Hucles) have. (((Lloyd and Boxx have been playing to build chemistry and still haven't really built any that I can see. I question whether just the fact that they started is a selection criteria. They have showed a lot of holes in their games lately, IMO. Pia had a nice little experiment to see if they could work together and thus far they haven't. Time for plan B.))) I thought 9 months ago we needed more of plan B. But the sad reality is that Pia has not really experimented here and there may not be time left. LIke i said Lloyd and Boxx have started everygame they have been eligible. ((((You still haven't explained what soccer skill Wagner has that is only good late in games when you are behind. If you can deliver balls into the final third, then you can do it. It's not a time related skill. I have never heard of a skill that is only valuable when you are behind. Controlling play is just as important if you are ahead. Wouldn't it make sense to use her offensive skills early and use her until she tires and then bring in the others if she needs the rest?))))) I thought I did explain. I will go into further detail. I don't think Wagner is game ready. And by that I mean has not played enough with this team. I also think Lloyd has a lot of strengths that Wagner doesn't. We have all seen Lloyd play brilliantly, unfortunately, we have all seen her play horribly. All and all, Lloyd does have a better, harder shot. She is quicker. She has much more experience with this current team and style. What Wagner can do (perhaps better than anyone in the team) is serve beautifully to forwards, which is valuable, especially late in the game if we are down. We don't start Wagner, because she hasn't had the experience in the last two years with this team, she does not have the same striking ability, and to play a full 90 minutes one must not only be physically fit but more importantly mentally fit. Perhaps wager is mentally fit, but she hasn't been tested, so we don't know and the Oly's aren't the time to experiment.
Be careful about using mental fitness as a test on this team. There Are several players who wouldn't pass muster. Ali's not one of them. There are still a lot of bad passes, players dribbling into double teams, bad first touches, midfielders forgetting their defensive assignments, etc. OK, I give up. I guess I's rather play a player who HASN'T played horribly when I'm going into a major competition. and the current team style is not something particularly to aspire to... Thanks for giving it another shot, though.
on the wagner question i tend to think that her poor defense early in the game when offensive players are fresh makes her a liability. it would be nice if we only needed her offense. but we need her to play some defense in the middle of the field too. and she simply does not do it as well as either lloyd or boxx. now i do acknowledge that lloyd and boxx have left some big holes open in the middle in the recent matches we have seen. but in my opinion, that's because of pia's system. wagner playing high in that system would be even worse defensively, and her offensive advantages in my opinion do not outweigh her defensive disadvantages. of course, i'm sure that pia is putting them all thru their paces even now to see if wagner can cut it. if she can i expect to see her start over lloyd in that first game against norway.
relax fellow USA fans, Team USA will just be fine! They have by far the best collection of talented players in the world! I am looking forward to see how they perform dealing with the huge loss of Abby. I cannot any other analysis as the USA options have been vetted in this thread! On another note, I have noted several folks (entitled to their opinion ) in this thread claiming that Norway is weak (and Japan for that matter implied). While I am the first one to admit that Norway has been frustrating to watch due to their inconsistency over the last few years, they still nonetheless are a very good team and can indeed beat any team on a given day. Norway was written off at 2000 OLY, for example. Norway feel no pressure to win the 2008 OLY. I think you can say NOR has been inconsistent but never weak! They have been playing a 4-3-3 formation which can provide exciting soccer and USA should consider 4-3-3 as well. Who knows, maybe another USA-NOR final?
I want Chalup instead of Boxx in the defensive mid role -- either paired with Wagner or Lloyd. In my opinion, Boxx is the biggest liability in the midfield. I don't think she adds anything other than a big body, which against the Brazilians and Germans doesn't cut it. I would rather see a small, hard-working Chalup who will pester the better teams or a Wagner who will provide the U.S. with an offensive threat. If we are going to play terrible defense in the midfield than why not put Wagner in there for her offense.
Does an at-mid need to pass 85% of her passes to the opponent? as well as boot the Ball in no man's land.... give me Wagner's stats in all the Big tournaments she playered if any body is up to it... WWC and Olympics!!!
Ok Dianamo-superstriker!! Sorry if I am so husk....but she did not fit in with the WUSA ...... she was traded because of not being able to keep possession.... She will never fit in with WNT... unless she toughen up herself cause I have seen many time's how she is dispossessed by the opponents... that way she be able tto hold the ball and not hurry her distributions... all Wagner need is to get really fit and tough.......
Something Ironic, perhaps. Gone from the 2008 Olympics: Lily, Scurry, Wambach, Cat, Greg Ryan. The baggage from the 07 WC is gone, except for, of course, the one left standing: Hope Solo. This is a new era, a truly new team.
Here's an interesting take on the situation ... http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/soccer/20080723-9999-1s23soccer.html