I suppose I should make a poll or something, but I'm not going to. But I am curious. There is an awful lot of hate toward Benny-ball and a fair amount of distrust toward Olsen's abilities as a coach. And yet, DC is a top the standings and for the second year in a row, leads the East. Certainly, there are caveats, such as a home-heavy schedule so far, games played, and the strength of opponents, but there are always caveats. The strikes against Olsen, from what I have gleaned from what others have posted are that: 1) Benny-ball is unattractive. For some of you, even watching DC win seems like a root-canal. 2) Benny-ball is unreliable. Even ignoring the abysmal failure two years ago, DC relies heavily on Hamid for defense and luck/referees to score. While Benny-ball can lead to one-nil victories over league leaders, it can also result in one-nil loses to cellar-dwellers. While we could probably argue that it has been pretty reliable for the past season-and-a-half, it certainly hasn't inspired confidence. 3) Benny-ball is inflexible. The same goes for Olsen. DC has a style of playing and it doesn't really adapt either in anticipation of the team being played or the circumstances that arise during the game (e.g. DC mostly plays the same if the games is tied, they're winning, or they're losing). 4) Olsen struggles with foreign/technical/prima-donna players. For all of Olsen's supposed talent in leading the players, he does so with a certain type of player, but is unable to get what he wants or he feels the team needs from players that do not fit his mold. If the player does not fit that mold, that player does not play, regardless of ability or apparent need for those abilities. In the pros: 1) Olsen is a goddamn DC United hero. It might be silly and nostalgic, but loving/worshiping these guys is part of being a fan for a lot of us and makes us willing to cheer for one of the appendages of the single MLS entity. 2) The man gets results. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Those results have been mixed - while that is certainly true (worst season on record), he also turned it around dramatically; DC hasn't had consistently poor results. Someone, probably Knave, pointed out a while back that DC tends to be peak-and-troughy (Knave never said "peak-and-troughy," I assume, because he has dignity), so I'm not sure how much we can hold that against him. He's had some really good seasons and we seem to be in one now. Let's be honest, a great many of us called Kevin Payne an idiot and tone-deaf when he suggested DC's "tradition" was that the fans would rather see DC lose pretty than win ugly. Well, now we're seeing the opposite, in the extreme. 3) He gets a lot for cheap. Value! Actually, this is usually credited to his "man management" abilities. He takes relatively inexpensive players and gets a lot out of them. While DC has had wasted DPs under Olsen, the rank-and-file perform above expectations, and that's probably necessary since the owners have said they are unlikely to spring for big DP contracts at this point. 4) The man looks good in a suit? I almost put this in the strikes against him, since my significant other always shout marriage proposals at him when he comes over to thank the fans. On the other hand, as good a coach as Sigi Schmidt may be, I always find myself looking for a harpoon when I see him. Probably not too important in a coach, but Ben Olsen is a walking PR coup when he represents the team to the public. So, I'm genuinely curious. Do people want to see him go?
#3 in the Pro's is the reason why he needs to stay. The team's management is not going to be putting a lot of money into this team until the stadium is done. Until then we'll have the dregs to work from. Benny has shown he can get results with them. He's a keeper. Besides that, having a club legend that lives, eats, and breathes DC United and coaches the team is icing in the cake.
I don't want to see him go; I want to see him improve. 2) Benny-ball is unreliable. I disagree with this. I think it's reliable just limited. Probably, too limited to win trophies or be a real threat at winning trophies. DC doesn't have the highs and lows of some of the other teams by design (both through player selection and style) and that is working but probably isn't enough. 3) He gets a lot for cheap. MLS isn't La Liga yet. And it's still Single Entity. Most teams are pretty close in payrolls. (IF/when they add that 4th DP & the owners don't spend to keep up - well that's all on them).
I want 3 points and trophies. Aside from players diving and taking a razorblade to their own head WWE style, I don't care how it's done. The simple comeback to any sports smacktalk that can shut anyone up when you're winning: "Scoreboard."
This doesn't bother me that much. I like when we win. But... This is why games are less enjoyable for me. We rarely, very rarely, start looking like a team who's gonna score goals. I remember that game last year where Espindola got the ball and started running and I just got that feeling that I knew he would score. I used to get that feeling all the time, years past. That hardly ever happens anymore. There just aren't enough players on the roster where we consistently look likely to do it, or dangerous to our opponent. Sometimes it comes in a wave here and there, but it's never sustained. So yes, I have a problem with the fact that I think the team could be better and they don't seem to want to make it better. I don't like watching a game expecting something to go wrong, when I used to watch expecting good things to happen. If there's one thing I lay squarely at Ben's feet, it's this. It drives me crazy how static we are. But when we get results, you can't have the argument. This makes me want him to be our coach, but it doesn't make me think he should be. Those are two different things. This is a weak argument, in my mind, because until this year, we had seen very little player development, and if anything some of the players were getting worse. But that's different from his man management skills, which I believe to be excellent. Overall I'm satisfied. At the beginning of each offseason I've decided where I think the team should be at the end of the next year, and at the end of each preseason I recalibrate what I think the assembled team is capable of doing. Then I gauge what happens. So far, most of the time, we are meeting or exceeding my expectations. That said, I think there's more that can be done as I said above, but I can't say for sure that Ben is the reason they aren't being done. Only Real Madrid and NYRB fire winners. Friends don't let friends be Real Madrid and NYRB.
I forgot to put it in the post, but I was considering the "probably isn't enough" argument under "inflexible," because my understanding was that the worry is the Benny-ball isn't capable of making that step up for knockout stage games. That said, I do wonder how much we over-state this; I've watched plenty of UCL quarter and semi-finals played with a Benny-ball mentality and not just against Barcelona. Regardless, it does appear to be a valid worry, if not criticism, of DC's play under Olsen. As for improving, I think that is what a lot of people want to see and I don't think that he won't improve as a coach, but we're a number of years in and I don't think it is reasonable to expect a dramatic change in Olsen in the short-term.
I love Ben, I just want us to get some better players in (and for him to play them). We really need to replace EJ - is he still taking up a roster spot? Seriously, if we kept him after 2013, there is no way we would get rid of him now.
<IMG>beatingadeadhorse.jpg</IMG> Just kidding. But seriously, though, we're not really in a spot to get better players due to cost, most likely. In that regard, Ben has done an amazing job with the people we have. So the question is more along the lines of "is Benny-ball what we're stuck with even if we get the better players?" I don't know the answer to that.
OP does a nice job of summarizing the feelings. Even wins are a root canal for me. I want good/quality soccer and I think the broader DC area wants that too. We would see much better attendance for a 1st place team if we could play a possession game, build from the back, and play with some style. When you get into the playoffs, that's the only reliable way to win anyway.
I don't buy that we don't play a possession game. No we're not playing one touch everywhere, but the Brandon McDonald long ball lottery days are well over
well, the so-called "Benny Ball" is almost always played by Euro teams when going up a high-powered team, like every team in La Liga playing Real Madrid or Barcelona. Some top-level teams, like Juventus, play that way all the time and win big consistently. The difference is the level of skill of the players on those teams, their mental focus and toughness and smarts.
Benny ball as an Eastern Conference strategy is a different conversation from Benny Ball as a Western Conference strategy. It works in the East because the East is, generally speaking, bad.
I blamed Ben's "Benny Ball" approach for appearing to be dismissive of Boskovic's talent when he first arrived. I thought Ben just didn't think Branko played the leg-pumping, tongue-out blue collar style he seemed to favor. But at Pinstripes this year I talked to Benny about Bosko, and he went on for some length about how much he regretted his departure. So now I believe he is ready and willing to play a more possession-oriented game if he could find a lineup that could support it. Presently, I think Rolfe is the only midfielder with great skill at holding the ball and finding an open attacker for a final pass.
well -yeah - Unfortunately you can really only play the style of ball with the type of players you have
Yes and no, to the extent you are responsible for the players you bring in. No idea what Ben's contribution is to that effort but you generally pick your players based on your style, not the other way around, unless you're a new coach. I'm in the camp of wanting attractive soccer AND winning as was done with this very team in the past. It can be done without breaking the bank. That said Given the general lack of talent here relative to players on the top few other MLS teams, I do believe Ben gets more out of them. Unfortunately I think we're seeing the best possible results, meaning that a good regular season is all we can hope for with this bunch and with Ben. They just have too many weaknesses for an MLS Cup run. Given the management seems to have no intention of bolstering the team to be a strong competitor in the Champion's League, the supporter's shield doesn't really mean all that much if you can't make it to MLS Cup, in my opinion. The whole damn thing is dissatisfying. Yeah, we're winning a few games and are getting to see some special goalkeeping, but ut just isn't enough for me or enough to really build the team up in both quality and support. So, Ben should have been fired after 2013, regardless of what he's done after. because there should be accountability and there really just isn't much of that in MLS. Nobody gets relegated. The local media for the most part won't hammer you. At this point there is nothing at all to be gained by firing him. But, we better see a commitment to winning championshipS when that stadium gets built. And what happens when Bill eventually leaves to get a nice payday?
Maybe not, but possession in and of itself is useless if there isn't an attempt at penetration (multiple backward passes). We're very slow at that except on the counter. Yes, we don't have many players who can play a more exciting brand of possession, but that's why I want to see Halsti given the reins and see what he can do. Of course that means the other guys need to know what to do off the ball and that remains to be seen.
Great post … great thread … Bennyball is definitely absolutely painful. I just checked and we're the 4th worst offense in the league now. Only Colorado, RSL and NYCFC are below us. Granted there's a bunch of teams just barely above us … but still. On the other hand you look at the points. You look at us earning CL spots. You can't really argue results … Also for I know you made this thread specifically about Olsen but you can't really judge him unless you take a step back and look at the whole picture. I think there's plenty of blame to go around for the ugliness ... For one have to remember here is that the EJ situation is not Benny's fault. Now … to be fair I thought it was a bad signing from the start but even so I never expected him to contribute 0 minutes to a season. I don't think anyone could have predicted that. At the end of the day you have to chalk that up to the soccer Gods who simply ended EJ's career and it's out of anyone's control. Second of all you have to look at Pontius … After the '12 season I don't think anyone could predict the disastrous 3 years yet to come. It's easy to monday morning quarterback now but again you have to chalk that one up to the soccer Gods who really are going out of their way to end another career. Third of all you have to place some of the blame on the players themselves. I mean we all knew that Espy was a red card magnet when he signed. But what does that really mean in an MLS context? Maybe he misses two/three games per year for red cards? I don't think anyone could have anticipated this … I guess you could put that on Benny for not instilling discipline … but Fabian isn't a kid. He needs to take responsibility for his actions And finally I'd like to place a little blame on MLS too (I know … my signature is a dead give away). But seriously … the league flat out said that we got jobbed on the EJ situation. The league has it's dirty fingerprints all over the signing to begin with. They saw a weak vulnerable club and they shoved him down our throats. It's not like Benny fought the signing … but really what other choice did he have? Was Thohir really going to invest in signing a proven star goal scorer from abroad? It was never going to happen so Ben took the pragmatic approach and bet on EJ. But why are we in July already and we still haven't been made whole? Meanwhile the league is out there changing the rules again so LA and Seattle can get more DPs and here we are with the 4th worst offense in MLS with absolutely no prospects of improving.
I'm not going to lie, I'm taking that little tidbit poorly. Like, "seriously questioning whether I want to give up on the league poorly." I know why you put Seattle in there, but I feel like they're taking advantage of what the league does for other clubs. As great as CenturyLink is on TV, I don't think the league is going out of their way to help Seattle anymore. Seattle got their reward in Dempsey, but that market has peaked, or near enough to it, and MLS is after other, bigger, markets. The desperation for there to be a NY rivalry, the rules fixing for Manchester City West, LA, and maybe New Jersey, all of this crap despite the success that MLS teams have found in smaller markets. If I had to guess, the league may start screwing Seattle when LA-2 shows up because right now Seattle and LA have a rivalry and MLS has shown disdain for organically developed-rivalries (see the scheduling for "rivalry week") and wants inter-city derbies. I didn't check the timestamp, did you write this after Espindola's red card last night? I think that is an interesting point, Espindola is not the only player to get stupid reds under Olsen. As much as he may get the players fired up, I feel like he has trouble reigning them in if their focus breaks.
It sucks to watch Benny Ball sometimes, but somehow, DC United are the ONLY team in the East with a winning record. Think about that for a moment.
I think Olsen will be a lifer, and in 10 years atop the list to manage the Nats. Not because of tactical acumen. Because players will follow him. Once he gets the right assistants and scouts, and then delegates while he simply leads, it will fall into place for him.
"simply leads" is an understatement. What sold me on Olsen was the 2010 Open Cup. That was a wretched team, yet they never quit during the regular season and found a way to win a championship despite winning only 3 league matches. Someone held that team together -- it was Olsen. That's leadership, and few coaches really have it.