Ok, Jordan Morris, is he the deal?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by deuteronomy, Apr 16, 2015.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Are you saying he was horrible and benched? No, he was hurt. He was a one footed, one dimensional player when he got hurt and when he came back. In the meantime, on and off the field, during rehab and after, he has learned and worked on his left foot at least.

    Or did you just want me to say 6 months? or 18 months? or two years? So pedantic.
     
  2. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Obviously, I said he got better, and he is in MLS. There is no doubt that a player can improve in MLS. Tyler Adams went from ok to great to unchallenged in MLS. That is when you move. Morris can learn to play this well consistently. But at his pay level, and the level of his game, his job is super secure in MLS. He doesn't have to get any better. Maybe USMNT will push him a bit, but it is hard to get better staying at the same level of competition.

    Like many in his age range on his second contract, in MLS (like Trapp, Roldan, Long); it is super hard for the type of European team that will take the player as a development project to pay. Hamid moved, but soon couldn't pass up the monetary reward to come back rather than slog it out in the Danish league.

    You have to move before becoming a HG really. You can start as an HG, but you have to move during that time. This is a big change from Dempsey's generation, where you had to move, even at 25-27, to make money. That next generation (Besler's and later) didn't. You can make good money following Zardes's or Dax's career path, but your ceiling will never be raised.
     
  3. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Billy didn't make it in Denmark for whatever reason, so that's why he transferred back to the States. It wasn't the monetary reward.

    Morris and Roldan make around 800k/yr (Morris up to 1m w/ incentives), which doesn't exceed salaries handed out to players of their ilk in Europe. They'd have the potential to make more, as well as when they'd return to MLS since they'd have leverage being acquired, while in between they could face tougher competition. All their caps give them the case for WP's, prestige to be among non EU exceptions, and showcases against players in those leagues. There's enough potential impetus there both ways for it to happen. We'll see if it does. I'm hopeful.
     
  4. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Whether you or I agree those players are on the level with players at that salary in England or Germany, there is no history that teams in those leagues do. There is very little history lately of American players on their second MLS contract being sold anywhere. Deals usually break down because the MLS team asks too much (or the Euro team offers too little, however you take it) or the player can't get a salary to his liking.

    Morris and Roldan will probably never move unless they are highly motivated to do so. But, if they were such, they would have not signed another deal and moved already.

    The one place this tends to not be true, or in other words, the one organization that tends to sell players during their contract, is NYRB. It is possible Long will be sold. Adams was sold early too.
     
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  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cameron moved after he signed his 2nd contract. I guess Besler and Zardes had shots but declined them. Zardes' options couldn't have been as good as Jordan's, at least. I don't have a gauge of Zardes vs. Roldan. They may be similar. You are correct in asserting it's less likely than before, logically and empirically.

    But there's little recent history of players transferring at that point, in part because of how Klinsmann prejudicially shut them out to not give them the national team value boost, and also the golden generation gap. So you figure the prevalence will increase now, more toward levels we saw under Arena and Bradley, even if not all the way. You could also factor in MLS generates somewhat more respect worldwide now.

    A couple years ago Roldan claimed he was motivated to "eventually" make the move. Though if he's getting Championship/Belgian/Eredivisie level offers like Zardes was that could preclude it. May have been thinking top 4. I think Morris would get top 4, but never really heard Morris state his desire publicly, not that he hasn't or at least thought it.
     
  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #3756 Clint Eastwood, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    The biggest reason USMNT-eligible players stay in MLS is that MLS is PAYING them big money to stay. Those of us who've been fans of MLS from the beginning remember that in the bulk of this league's history, the big money contracts went to almost exclusively foreign players. So USMNT players, even middle-class USMNTs, had to go to Europe for those types of deals. I remember the rants that Kenny Cooper Sr. and Jr. went on about how league wouldn't offer them a competitive contract. Kenny wanted to stay. These MLS players have family to worry about, their kids' education to worry about, the careers of their wife/girlfriend, etc. etc. This whole notion that every MLS player with a pulse should pick up their lives and move to Europe is silly. Given similar money, most of us would choose to live in America too.

    FC Dallas, for instance, has supposedly offered lucrative contracts to Reggie Cannon and Paxton Pomykal. So now we see. They can make huge money to play for their hometown club (where Pomykal reportedly loves playing) or move abroad. I don't blame them in the least if they want to stay. Its their lives...……….not mine. Who on Earth am I to judge?

    Seriously. Jordan Morris makes a ton of money to play at the hometown soccer club he loves. Seems like an ideal life to me. I'd choose that over making the same money in frickin' Stoke or Gelsenkirchen. [Barcelona? OK, you have me there.]

    The time for Euro clubs to grab American players is when they're 16 (if they have a Euro passport) or 18. The age they're currently doing so. Once players lay down roots with families, etc. its a much more difficult decision. And let's not get it twisted. People are always surprised how small the initial contracts are for most Americans when they move to Europe as teens. Thomas Roberts at FC Dallas makes substantially more money than Uly Llanez at Wolfsburg. MLS clubs are starting to make it financially worthwhile for prospects to stay. They have a way to go there, but its happening too.
     
  7. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Nobody says the players shouldn't do what makes them happy. My point would simply be that those players are not dedicated to reaching their potential. Most professional players in any sport need to be ultra competitive to get where they are and most will want to compete against the best. But, of course, it is their choice and some will be content to make buckets of money and not have job risk. And you echo my point that a player like Morris is overpaid relative to the market to play domestically. Most English players, because of competition rules, are overpaid by domestic clubs too. It is probably true in many leagues.

    Duke is similarly right that there is usually no downside to going to Europe or starting there. Historically, there is almost an extra premium salary attached to players coming into the league from abroad. Morris, as an example, got a very rich HG contract simply by trialing overseas. Brek Shea has been one of the most highly paid Americans in the league just by failing in England.
     
  8. harttbeat

    harttbeat Member

    Dec 29, 1998
    New York
    Morris is good asset to have late game sub where we are up a goal or tie and wants to bunker. Just check out last night's goal against SJ.
     
  9. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's a good asset to have to start and go 90 most games. He can get in behind, shoot, get a cross in, and his motor never stops. He has tremendous will to win and clutch ability. That's what last night, this season, and his time w/ the national team have demonstrated.
     
  10. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Having both options is good for players. It allows players on both sides to negotiate better salaries and it provides second chances to players who weren't appreciated. There is very little to complain about in this day and age.
     
  11. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Campania
    Involved in the first six (!) goals:

     
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  12. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was a monster last night. One of the best single performances I’ve seen from a US player, if someone ignores the competitive level of the opponent.
     
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  13. Rahbiefowlah

    Rahbiefowlah Member+

    Oct 22, 2001
    Las Vegas
    Credit where credit’s due. He destroyed Cuba with Weston in about 15 minutes.
     
  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Some players can reach their potential, playing at a lower level. Others need to be at a higher level.

    Dempsey continued to improve his game, no matter what league he played in.

    Playing in MLS didn't stop Donovan popping across The Pond to whip arse.

    It's all down to the individual player and his circumstances.

    Morris is fine in MLS. His game continues to grow. This season has been especially impressive, given he's coming off a season long injury and rehab stint.

    On the other hand, I'd hoped that Pomykal would be leaving in the Winter. The reason: the frequent and sometimes vicious tactical fouling he has had to endure with little in the way of protection from the referees.

    Morris has been the best attacker in the team. Drawn pk against Mexico. The goal against Uruguay. He took care of business against Cuba; someone had to. I'd like to see him play forward in 4231, against Canada .
     
  15. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    May 4, 2002
    Ok, Jordan Morris, is he the deal?

    Short answer, NO.

    Longer answer, he is an OK MLS winger with a high work rate until he tires out. But his play drops way off if his speed is matched or he tires even a little. We have several better outside players that do not have his baggage. But against the Cubas of the world he does look like a world beater.
     
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  16. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Yeah, but those players that can be CONCACAF bumslayers are pretty valuable in our setup. Think about GAM across 2 different cycles. If Morris ends up as a more technically proficient GAM for the NT, that's a perfectly cromulent backup attacking option to keep around for qualifying.
     
  17. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    Mar 17, 2007
    Colorado (formerly northern Virginia)
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Jordan wants to be a real deal - or aspires to that - he needs to go abroad and test himself.
     
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  18. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    The only reason "to go - to test " would be to make some insecure "fans" happy. His growth rate is better than anybody on NT playing abroad except for Dest am Wes. He ceiling is limited by his diagnosis but he is inspirational for many kids.
     
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  19. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    who made you God of soccer careers? Were Landon or Eddie Pope real deals?
     
  20. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    can only play those people in front of you.
     
  21. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Landon started in Germany and had loans every few year. His performance against Ghana in 2006 when we needed a win reminded me of his abysmal performance against Liverpool in 2005.

    Landon's performances varied significantly. Most likely to him shutting off in MLS when he felt like it. Complete waste of talent.
     
  22. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    not much to take away the competition is so poor. Good for him putting in a nice performance, Let's see if he can do similar when the opponent becomes competent. I dont remember him doing anything against Mexico. when you dont test yourself, decent international teams are a huge step up.

    I dont know why anyone would have an avatar of the the individual who has done more harm to the usmnt team over the last 15 to 20 years. the guy who brought unwarranted arrogance to the game in this country and went from a decent run, to bombing out of the WC, to absolute failure why alienating a subset of players.
     
  23. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Our current high level club guys haven't done much of anything against Mexico themselves so I'm not sure that should be a disqualifying measure. Also by that logic Bradley is still an auto starter given he's tallied some huge goals against Mexico in qualifiers.

    Regardless, I think it's more than just the Cuba game regarding Morris being a worthy NT selection. One of the most obvious inclusions for me at the moment alongside the usual names.
     
  24. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Galaxy played Liverpool in 2005?
     
  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why does he need to test himself?
     

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