Official “Is Brad Friedel bad at his job?” Thread

So, it's okay to throw guys under the bus when you're having a decent season?

Well, when Anibaba was off-balance and mis-timed his jump, letting the attacker go in alone, when Delamea stuck his hand in the air to draw a penalty kick, when Dielna was caught flatfooted letting an attacker go by him, and when Somi routinely let guys get around the corner on him, I'm pretty sure that's incompetent playing, not incompetent coaching.

Based on what - that he didn't share his self-evaluation with the press?

For the most part, you are talking about defensive players - and almost all coaches try to get to consistent unit. So, when a guy plays himself out of the lineup, generally it takes a while, if at all, to get another chance.

- Cropper was 3rd string all season. Was he exiled, or did he not show himself to be better than the #2 in practice?

- Dielna was horribly inconsistent at center back, played better at LB for a while, but then was exposed for lack of speed there. He got a lot of playing time over the course of the season, so I can't see how he was 'exiled'. When he did go to the bench for the final time, my presumption is that he didn't show improvement in practice to merit another start.

- Somi was getting burned (and targeted by attackers). He was the closest to getting 'exiled', since after being benched he never did return to the lineup. But, again, was he buried by Friedel or did he not impress in practice?

Since you guys seem to remember this clearly, can you point to some examples where he criticized players by name?

 

True, and that'd be the biggest value to have a good relationship with the Hartford USL team.

I don't think RBNY will stink this year. But I'll be shocked if they win the shield over Atlanta. Going from a midfield of Adams, Davis and Kaku to Casseres, Davis and Kaku is a definite downgrade, even if it is still a top 10 MLS midfield.

 

Your Kraft Family (and implied Friedel) defense mechanisms kicked in. That is when you start deliberately missing the point. It is okay to challenge your players publicly when you have credibility. Friedel didn't have that. Friedel has exactly zero winning seasons in top-flight soccer and showed NOTHING last year to demand respect as a COACH. Several of those other examples have had winning seasons or even won the cup.

Two of those guys were not exiled. Two were. Tierney got spun around as easily as anyone and never got exiled. Plus, your Kraft Family (and implied Friedel) defense mechanisms kicked in. That is also when you start ignoring things from the original post. I flat out stated that the players were open to criticism. In fact, no-where in my post did I say, "Friedel should never have publicly criticized the players." I wonder why I didn't say that? Could it be that I actually agree that coaches, in general, should be allowed to challenge their players?

Exactly - I'm under no obligation to support the Kremlin-esque control of information out of the REVs. Plus, Brad was close to a one-trick pony last year. He didn't need to share anything. We all watched the games. He has a LONG way to go.

It wasn't playing out of the lineup it was played onto the reserve team and didn't travel or dress for A team matches. Which made no sense.

Your Kraft Family (and implied Friedel) defense mechanisms kicked in and so your going to go with the, "ooooh you don't see what Brad sees in practice defense." Your using that here and for Dielna and Somi. It is another argument that I don't much support. You are arguably correct except that I watched Cropper the prior season and there isn't that much separating him and Knighton. So I'll go with what I __DID__ see not the vague sh*t you'll hypothesize I did not see. Also, quite surprisingly, quotes from THE Brad himself say he's right in the mix again this year. Going back to those other coaches, they don't seem to be quite as bipolar on player evaluation as Brad, although I don't follow those teams anywhere near as closely.

Everybody that Friedel put in the position was horribly inconsistent at center back. I'd include Mancienne who still has to prove himself IMHO. If I made the effort to go back and check, I'd bet Dielna didn't even dress for the last 8 games, maybe more. No injury announced. That seems like exile to me.

See above. The strange thing about Somi is that he was Friedel's pick wasn't he? Cropper and Dielna Friedel inherited. Somi, I just scratch my head. I don't see how Brad gets a pass on Somi. Somi may have been inconsistent but then Brad (cause we know it's Brad, not Mike) should have done more homework before he signed Somi.

 

Sure, I supposed it is possible that Cropper went from first string, 28-game starter, to "not good enough for 2nd-string" in one off-season. But it is highly improbable.

 

That's a great point. They may do it after a bad loss or a critical point in the year with playoffs looming ahead. But usually they don't repeatedly do it.

 

For the Cropper supporters, do you really think he should have been starting over Turner last year?

Cropper has always looked shaky to me. I thought Knighton outplayed him in 2017. I thought he looked bad in the 2018 preseason when he was the presumptive starter. I know he has some pedigree and maybe potential. I hope he realizes it.

I was surprised to see Turner starting the first game of the season last year, but it really made sense to me after his seeing his performances during the season. He had ups and downs last year, but if he is back in the form that he started in last year, I hope he is the starter again.

For me Knighton has always been steady. He is also someone can come in after months on the bench and perform well right away. I think this makes him the ideal number 2.

 

On Cropper, I didnt think he looked very good in 2017. Statistically he was the worst goalie in MLS by xg. He's been hanging his hat on being the stater for the U20s in 2012/3, a team which lost 3-1 to mexico in the CONCACAF final, and then got drubbed out of the WC in the group stages allowing 9 goals in 3 games.

I'd wager Burns over values him, which is why he hasnt been sold/traded

 

Finally, although those other coaches put out some harsh words, did they actually exile players (Dielna, Somi, Nguyen [special case agree, but handled harshly], Cropper come to mind)? Or, did they address the situation "behind closed doors" and draw their most talented players back into contributing roles?

This exile thing...

Dielna:
I said this before and I think it is a good point. Dielna was named captain at the start of the year and then exiled by the end of it. On field performances were mixed. By the end effort was questionable. I think it is likely that the player had something to do with that. Bad attitude, failure to listen perhaps? I am glad he found a new home and I wish him well.

Somi:
I thought he showed some passing and movement skills for the attack though he never connected well with his teammates. I think he was a very weak defender. I was not surprised at all to see him disappear from the lineup and bench last year. If Somi was getting starts after the first month of the season people here would say that Friedel was crazy for starting him. If you are not good enough, you should not start. Left back was a trouble position all year. i thought Bye played better than Somi, so what happened made sense to me.

I was hoping Somi would find a move back to Sweden where his style of play worked better apparently. Currently he is still a Rev. I hope he can fix what went wrong last year or find a move away.

Nguyen: Skipping this one. Hope you will get over it in time.

Cropper: Keeper is a tough position, given that a team only needs one per game. (Hopefully.) I never saw Cropper in England, so I can't speak to that. I saw his play in 2017 and 2108 preseason. I saw Turner's play last season and I have seen Knighton over the years. I think 1. Turner, 2. Knighton, and 3. Cropper makes sense.

Maybe Cropper will prove me wrong this year.

 

"Kraft Family defense mechanisms" - nice. I like that. Keep using it - it can work to counter anything I say that supports the team, coach, organization, etc.

You tell me that I ignore your point, yet use your made up syndrome to discount most of my points?

Yes, everyone was inconsistent (though I'd argue that Anibaba has a long stretch of very good, consistent play).

So, you suggest that Friedel should have just keep rejuggling the defense because each group he tried also made mistakes? Most of the time, you have to pick what you feel has the best potential and give them time to develop some cohesion. You can't argue that Dielna didn't get a chance - or a 2nd chance. I'd like to see some coherent logic to support the hypothesis that Friedel was being vindictive ( or ...?), rather than just get a defense performing at a decent, consistent level.

Brad does not get a pass on Somi - I never suggested he did. In fact, I think what is even stranger (and requires more of an explanation) was Machado.

We got to see what Somi did well and didn't do well. Friedel only got offseason scouting to make a determination. Turns out he wasn't starting quality, so, yeah, that was a miss. There were hits and misses in his first season.

 

It's not just about talent. The question in my mind is how did he react to not winning the starting job? Did he let that affect him to the point where he not only didn't challenge for #1, but also didn't challenge for #2?

Again, as with my post about Dielna, what supports any sense that this was anything but who were the best players in games and practices getting playing time?

 

And, there are two other important factors other than Cropper's ability to be the #1 keeper.

One is the performance of the other two keepers.

The other is a new coach - and in this case, the coach has incredible experience, pedigree, coaching, training, etc. at the very same position. Do you really think Heaps is a better judge of keepers than Friedel is?

My eyes told me that Turner's performance lived up to Friedel's stunning choice and faith in him. As to Cropper, we didn't see him play in 2018, so there's no way to know if he deserved to be #2.

 

Going for the record of consecutive posts.

For the record, I don't think Friedel is above criticism or did well enough that he didn't deserve some. My problem with this thread is that I think some of the criticisms are: inconsequential, purely speculative, off the mark, etc.

IMO, valid criticisms:

- didn't have an effective alternate style when high-press wasn't working
- endured looooong winless streak without remedy
- didn't give up on Nguyen returning until it had dragged on too long
- failed to get consistent play out of key defensive veteran players with good pedigrees: mainly Dielna and Zahibo
- some misses on offseason aquistions: Somi, Zahibo, Dielna
- what the heck happened with Machado?
- no consistent role for Caldwell
- no loan for keeper #3
- no playing time for young/backup players through loans, reserve team, etc.

Some petty, inconsequential, unsupportable criticisms:

- threw players under the bus. [so what, grow up boys and fight your way back]
- didn't take accountability: [ I don't agree, but whatever. I care about what he does, not what he says/doesn't say]
- exiled players: [ no real evidence. why wouldn't Friedel play the guys who gave the team the best chance to win?]

 

[1] Congratulations on dreaming big...... It would be heartbreaking, naturally, if my reply were to shatter your dreams......
[2] Good to hear that you consider throwing players under the bus, and the refusal to take accountability, to be "petty, inconsequential". As for your "unsupportable criticisms", rkupp, there you go again: confusing "criticisms rkupp does not support" with "unsupportable criticisms". Although I admit that it could be you are not confused and actually, with a clear head, believe that it's all about you.
[3] Next time you get thrown under the bus, I will remind you to laugh off those smashed vertebrae and to just grow up, boy.
[4] It's your right, of course, not to care about his refusal to take accountability. It's your right, of course, not to care about integrity. But when you say "I care about what he does, not what he says" I just point out that you cannot be telling us the truth. For last year what Brad did was crap, and you do not care about that.
[5] The evidence of players being in exile is that they are in exile. You know, one month they are manning the net at Waterloo and then they spend the rest of the year picking weeds on St. Helena. Last year, Kap'n Brad saw lots of weeds that needed players to pick 'em.
[6] Since Brad led us to a glorious season with wins as rare as snow on the equator, he clearly did not succeed in giving us the team with the best chance to win. Unless, of course, you think his job was done maximally well, and the wins we had were the most possible for the Revs in this most perfect of worlds.
When what we win is a crap record, with a manager who refuses to accept any responsibility and is busy blaming every one but himself, it takes a Kupp of Something to see it as shiny.

 

Mike,
Fair point, but I think that the difference was that it seemed that Friedel complained about the players effort or implementation about 10 games out of 12 over the summer swoon (2018 version). To quote the old gaffer "At some point you have to look at yourself in the mirror." (Any errors in Scottish to English translation are mine).

 

Observation vs. "made up syndrome" ...

I fail to see where I said he should rejuggle the defense. Farrell, Anibaba, Delamea, got pretty different treatment than Dielna and Somi, IMHO. It gets harder and harder to google down old news. I believe the latter two were training with the Reserves for long stretches. I don't get it and probably never will. There was lots of resume there and a lot of money being spent too. I'm not sure I saw much coaching, just shunning.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...efender-claude-dielna-interested-la-liga-move

http://bostonsportsextra.com/revolution/2018/10/happened-claude-dielna

I love that he puts the term "defender" in quotes regarding Farrell. Made me laugh.

One might argue that this is smart. But, I'd refer back to a line earlier in the article:

Good to hear. I think the misses far outweighed the hits. It's pretty concerning.[/Quote]

 

I don't play pro soccer.

 

I never said I thought Cropper should have been the starter. I never said Heaps was a better judge of keepers that Friedel.

But you don't go from 28 game starter to having your face on a milk carton, competing against the same two keepers you were the previous year, and tell me that is not being exiled. IIRC, he didn't even make the bench for the USOC game.

When Turner was 3rd-string, he got some games in for a USL team. Did Cropper?

Yes, it is possible he did something to deserve the exile, but saying there is "no real evidence" of exile is just silly.

 

To me, talking about exile without a motive seems silly (why would any coach want to 'exile' players?). To each his own, I guess.

Cropper is a young guy who got full season of starting. It must have been a cold slap to get passed by by Turner and have to come to terms that he had to battle for even the #2 spot. Maybe he didn't handle that as he should? I just don't know why Friedel wouldn't want Cropper to do as well as possible - just like all of his players.

 

OK, now you are moving the goalposts. No one here ever suggested Brad did these things without a motive. I'm sure he had his reasons, and I'm sure they were good reasons, too.

My only issue is the extreme measures. You can demote a player without completely making him disappear.

 

I think at least our last 3 coaches have all maintained a similar philosophy, good or bad, that roster players must earn their playing time in practice, scrimmages, etc.

So, if players disappear from the playing field, what other conclusion is there other than that he hasn't been successful in earning his way back into the lineup? [FWIW, my biggest issue with the Revs currently is the lack of opportunities for playing time for non-regular-starters in other competitions/scrimmages, etc.]

But, what specific behavior is Friedel being accused of - and how is it any different than Heaps, Nicol, or most other coaches?

 

I recall him throwing Diego under the bus at halftime.

 

It is not an exile to play the keeper you think is best and make the second best keeper the backup. I think that is all that happened.

I guess you are criticizing the coach for not getting Cropper USL minutes?

 

Agree to disagree then. I've never seen a player go from regular starter to never making the 18 once in an entire season, unless an injury was involved or new players were brought it to challenge him, neither of which applies to Cropper.

I'm not even criticizing the coach, just making an observation.
If Cropper were the only one to go from starter to persona non grata, it wouldn't be a big deal. But there were others, which seems to indicate it is part of his coaching style.

 

From recent interviews with Friedel - and elaborated on several times at the season ticketholder event yesterday, he said, basically, ...

- that last year was a process of finding out who had the right mentality for the team he was trying to build and who didn't.
- that the players who didn't are no longer here
- that the players who are here do have the mentality that they require

Also, interesting:

- when asked about Kelyn Rowe, he said that 1) everyone liked Kelyn a lot and appreciated everything he did for the club, 2) he wasn't a great fit for the system they wanted, 3) he was a valuable asset for getting a high-quality LB that they needed, and 4) it was well know that he wanted to get to Seattle when his contract was up in another year.

I suspect the players who seemed to drop out somewhat mysteriously, convinced Friedel that they didn't have the right mentality (maybe that includes fighting back when benched/demoted?). It's kind of a chicken/egg argument - if they did fight their way back in the lineup, then that maybe shows the mentality he is looking for?

Or, part of that mentality may mean being able to adjust/accept coaching when the staff wants things done a different way?

The only anomaly that explanation leaves is Somi. Since he remains, thus he's "on board". Yet, after mid-season we didn't see him.

 

Sigh... I get that Brad was new last year but he was brought on fairly early ("wicked" early for a Burns responsibility). He didn't have to win MLS Cup but we should have seen some improvement! (a hair that will be split but IMHO we did not see improvement). The free passes that this organization gets are staggering, "Oh, we can waste a season figuring out who has the right mentality for this team." vs. "While we're figuring out who has the right mentality for 2019, we're going to use and coach the group we have to maximum effect."

If you're going to argue that Brad used his 2018 roster to maximum effect, then I think we have the answer to the question this thread poses. He sucks. I feel I'm actually being "positive" when I take the view that they took a dive on 2018. It means that maybe we didn't see Brad's best coaching efforts or player selection efforts last year. I'm holding out hope that he doesn't suck.

At any rate, the Revolution glacial approach to coaching and roster improvement is an insult to their fan base. If Brad wasn't tasked to get a lot more than he did out of 2018 then the Krafts really are the worst owners in the league.

Finally, to rkupp, who said any of the players did not adjust/accept coaching? Your explanation didn't clear up any anomalies for me.