I really don't this this is a correct assessment. You really are looking at it in a black and white manner.....
I know right... this person really has a negative perception of probably something they know anything about. I think they must have had a bad experience..
The way we look at it, if my kid doesn't make ODP, or the academy team, or Super Y a particular year, we can always supplement him with training we pick. Yeah, it costs money, but there are less variables if you find a good training program. Academics are No. 1 for him, so any soccer kudos he can get are frosting and training and playing with the best players in our state is just a matter of enjoying soccer more. The sad part is when kids shut down because so much pressure is put on them to make academy or ODP or Super Y, when really they will likely reach their potential and be spotted on most high level teams.
If academics are No.1 then why even care if the kid makes the DA or ODP or whatever? Kids don't have to be playing/training with the best to enjoy the sport.
You wonder... I can answer. I proposed that to a very strong community based club. Train 3 days a week. Play weekend matches inter-squad, with referees, but with very little coaching during the match. BTW - USSF best practices guidelines state coaching should be done when a player comes out for a break, or at half-time. Sorry for the diversion... Added to the training and inter-squads would be a few tournaments each fall and spring as a gauge of soccer progress. Several of the parents were really interested, but in the end, the concept died because some parents were really quite honest, they wanted the competition against other clubs. It was part of the fun or excitement of having their child play. I do not in any way fault or pass judgment on this. Just a story of something that might have been, maybe a thinking out of the box new direction. Who knows.
And I bet I can guess which community based club you talk about! But yeah, that is an interesting proposal you had. Too bad it didn't work out at the end. Were you considering all age groups? Maybe it would've worked if you started to do it the first year with only the U8-U10 and then incorporate it with older ages.
This is exactly the model that one of my son's clubs have at the U9-U10s. The only problem is the coaching is twice a week and not of a very high standard and they play just two in-house tournaments a year; one for just the club teams and the other open to other clubs. Unless individual team coaches decide to do more outside of the club, but frankly the parents aren't all that enthusiastic about "hassle" of driving to tournaments, they actually like the fact there is very little stress and all the games are played in one place. When the kids do play in outside tournaments they tend to play in the low divisions and unfortunately do not do particularly well which highlights the clubs training deficiencies, so outside tournaments are not really encouraged. The other problem that goes along with this is that the kids aren't very well prepared for competitive U11s (if that is what they want to do) when they have to try-out and the competition they play against is much stiffer. Personally, I think it is a great system but it just hasn't worked very successfully with my son's club (IMO). I am in the minority, most parents are very happy with the club until their kids go competitive then things seem to get less harmonious.
everyone knows ODP was and is a joke. that is why the USSF had developed a better plan of forming a consistent system of development and identification of players, the academy system. For the lay community's perspective just use your common sense, ODP with 3-4 training sessions a year and then play playoff games vs weekly structured training with the best, playing against the best for 8-9 months a year. i have seen the elevation in quality with academy system and it is working. The only hurdle is how they are going to navigate the players to highest level with the ball and chain of the high school-college-NCAA system which is not conducive to producing the highest quality player to complete with the rest of the world. Lets be honest how can ANYONE invest in a player and not get a return on the investment. That is the struggle and hurdle the MLS is having now. Until this issue is solved we the USA will not get over the hump and enter the arena of the best of the best. Period!!!
Oversight of coaches and training for "top clubs" is minimal at best. ODP isn't too bad in our state, but certainly improves greatly when they increase training and have trips to get in more games. It is easy to see that a bunch of talented U13 or U14 kids can excel despite poor coaching, but those same kids would be nothing vs. teams from other countries given a few more years of bad coaching. I saw an extremely talented SA player join the team fresh off the plane, and his decline has been a sad reflection on "top team" training and coaching. Consistency, professionalism, basics to advanced and back again, these things are missing from my son's top ten team training program (if you can call it that), and we hope to get him to USDA when he is eligible in a few years so that he can benefit from a more consistent program that focuses on development. Unbelievable a top ten potentially higher team can have practices cancelled due to coach unavailability. But realistically, ODP does reach more players, and I wouldn't be surprised if USDA clubs recruit via their roles in ODP. Certainly there is a lot of old boys' network where certain club's players go to ODP, and they already recruit. ODP will give these USDA coaches an opportunity to recruit from the town and regional teams, and the best players will leave ODP one way or another and get into USDA.
Apparently ODP is fading according to the U14 BNT coach ... http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/play...0/U14-BNT-Closes-HDC-Camp-with-a-pair-of-wins So, whats going to be the alternative then to catch all the good players ?
It is fading, but it is a necessary resume builder for the time being IMHO for players going to USDA. There seem to be many more "one year and out" ODP players as the years pass.
The whole idea of U14 NT is a joke and waste of money. And why the hell is manny still coaching a nt. That's even a bigger joke.
Is it? What happens with very talented U14 players in Europe? Though honestly if U14 is too young for USDA, who in their right mind would think it is old enough for the MNT?
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/soccer-blog/comments/233 Interesting blog from Bob Zeigler. No matter whether its a ODP or academy setup, there still needs to be a forum to develope and find young talented players.
I totally agree that it depends on what state. We have a great program, Ohio south but it does take money and committment from parents to get the kids to the practices which are 1 hour and 40 minutes one way for us Columbus parents. I know my daughter says that at the regional camp she was so impressed on how good every girl was that was there.
Since we are a "day trip" and "multi-task" kind of family, it doesn't bother us as much as it might some people. Get a car charger for your laptop and handheld video games for your younger kids. I think people need to take a look at whether the initials ODP actually mean something to them, that there is some non-zero potential that their child would end up representing the USA in the Olympics or on the National Team. For USDA, there is the same potential but also IMHO a higher potential of college recruitment that would be good to switch to as a child gets older.
I totally agree... I think the drive to ODP is worth it. I know my daughter thinks its worth it and that is what matters. Best of luck.
If I had a daughter that played at a high level I would keep her in ODP but if I had a boy I would probably pass and put him on an Academy team. It really depends on what state you live in and if an Academy club is close by.
I actually agree with you on this one. The product we have put out on this program has not been stellar.
And a U14 USNT is not it! U14 DA that play mostly regionally and nationally once a year is the solution IMO.
U13 is 7th grade mainly, U14, 8th, and U15, 9th. I think 9th grade is the BARE minimum to have a national team, and if there is a stellar U13, let him play on the U15 team. I don't think one team per year is necessary either; instead have reserves that have two years combined as the regular team should. The fact that "pre-USDA" is now in place for the fall is a sad sign, more kids will be committing to a lot of travel and $$$, when a good portion of them will quit by the age of 14.
My son just got on the final state ODP team this year, and I was looking for info and found this old thread. Truth be told, he tried out for the only local DA that is free, and he made it to the final tryout but didn't make the team. Later we found out that there are a lot of politics for this DA, including a mediocre 99 making the 97 team my son had tried out for, because his dad was a coach known to the organization. My son's club team played the DA 97 team he tried out for this past fall, and neither he nor we had ever seen such a bunch of selfish and rude players. For example, throwing the ball off outside the field when a call went against them. Or continual studs up tackling including a late red card. Clearly there were a handful of very talented players, maybe five, but the other thirteen did not look more than average, or struggling to keep up. The coaches did not have much control over the players, but you could see their faces as plays were missed. DA team still beat my son's team, and yes the worst of my son's team were worse than the DA team's worst (though attitudes on my son's team were much better). The other DA in our area is over $3,000 per year not including travel and tournaments. His club team is $2,000 per year with an A license coach. ODP will be over a thousand dollars, with weekly practices and conflicts with some of his club team games. I think the major issue with this thread is the thought that all DA players are automatically good, and all the rest, such as my son who worked hard to get on the ODP final team, are automatically crap. And the corollary that if your child is not crap, you are wasting money paying for ODP as the ODP coaches are crap. My slightly more informed opinion is that YMMV - my son likes his ODP coaches so far (they had initial pool training and regional friendlies), and he is proud to play for the state. We have felt that the politics in ODP has reduced because now the DA programs are full of politics. We'll see how everything works out, but if your son can't make a DA program (time, money, politics, bad tryout, whatever), ODP is a good alternative if you can afford the time and money. It is still clear that for girls ODP is more important than other leagues.
RH - Good observations, and while I appreciate that nothing is perfect I am still a bit down on the DA program. About half the states in the USA still do not have academy representation. I am most surprised than TN and Kentucky do not have a presence. In TN Brentwood should be a slam dunk since they are one of the top squads and if you were looking to identify players adding a squad in Memphis would balance out the lack of geo representation. To their credit, they have admitted that large areas of the US do not have any way to participate. My hope is this gets corrected.
Talk about politics! There is one free, MLS team DA in our area. There is one expensive DA in our area. Within 90 minutes, there is one more free DA, and two more expensive DA's. I don't think even NYC has the talent, let alone the parents who want to drive an hour or more, except for the two free programs, to populate five DA teams at each age group. And each of the expensive DA clubs have non-DA teams in the same age groups, with promises of "promotion" if a player does well. Meanwhile they pay up to $5,000 or more per year to be associated with a DA club without playing on a DA team. There are clearly a lot of connected folks (for example, NJSA04 did not make the initial DA program, and they "magically" got in a year later because a former MNT player is the head of the club) in the NYC area who got DA status for their clubs. And most do not deserve it. I would venture to say that new clubs should apply (do you know if Brentwood is trying to get in or not?), and clubs that cannot maintain an excellent program should be OUT.