O’Neill and Keane OUT as managerial team

Discussion in 'Ireland' started by SebastianK, Nov 21, 2018.

  1. SebastianK

    SebastianK Member

    Apr 12, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    News just broke everybody.....they and the FAI have “mutually agreed” to part ways.

    Reactions? Replacements?
     
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  2. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    #2 Samarkand, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
    Right time to go. Possibly should have gone sooner.

    Two overriding things have come out of this for me:
    1. Football has evolved since Martin O’Neill were a lad, when he was in charge of Celtic, Leicester and Villa. Where he actually did quite well. But a freewheeling, seat of the pants, make it up as you go along approach is long since gone. Announcing teams an hour before kickoff without doing specific pairing and bonding exercises in training? Yeah, not so much at all anymore.


    2. Roy Keane will never be half or quarter as good at managing as he was at playing. I doubt he’ll ever see the helm of even a Championship side or and suspect TV work will loom large in his future.
     
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  3. pmannion

    pmannion Member
    Staff Member

    Apr 13, 2001
    Newfoundland
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    I agree 100%, but in terms of a successor - Mick McCarthy seems to be the overwhelming favourite. Is he really any different in this regard to O'Neill? Does he possess the tactical nous to coach and manage an international side in 2018?
     
  4. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    I think so. O’Neill was always a seat of the pants type. Teams announced just before kick off, not a huge amount of opposition research other than, “Gareth Bale’s good, watch him” and the like.

    McCarthy is a different animal in that he’s more thorough and more of a hands on coach. People may point to his league record which is definitely not as good as O’Neill’s, but if you look at Ipswich. Fans howling for him to go, he’s useless, etc. Ipswich have already fired his replacement and will be lucky to avoid the drop.

    McCarthy has always made more of what has been put in front of him, but not even he could work miracles with some of the sides he’s had.

    At an international level, his best achievement has to be WC 2002. Not so much the finals as the qualifiers. The Holland of Overmars Kluivert and then Portugal of Figo and Costa. He spilt them. It could be claimed that he had better players to work with than O’Neill, but he came in after Charlton with a tough job, to get rid of ageing veterans and blood new players. And he got the team to the playoffs.

    He went after a poor start to the 2004 Euros campaign with the detritus of Keane and Saipan hanging over him. Always thought he left too early.

    Maybe the game has passed him by, but he’s available which is probably the most attractive thing about him now to the FAI. He does have a track record. I see Allardyce has thrown his hat in the ring. McCarthy all day long for me if that’s the case.
     
  5. Zacarías

    Zacarías Member

    Benfica
    Portugal
    Jul 19, 2017
    Vila Nova de Gaia
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    Mick McCarthy has been named manager for the 2nd time. Stephen Kenny is the manager of the U21 side. If things go well, Kenny will replace McCarthy as the senior manager after Euro 2020
     
  6. SebastianK

    SebastianK Member

    Apr 12, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Sounds like the FAI have gone with the "safe" choice, even if they believe him to be a short-term fix. Bringing McCarthy back is an idea that has been discussed since the dying days of Trap, and now we'll see if that experiment pans out.

    For the O'Neill era, I liked the early results as well as the showing at Euro 2016, but O'Neill lost me at the playoff draw in Switzerland when he confessed to "wanting to avoid Italy". There he was, a supposed leader of men admitting to being intimidated. That lack of confidence shouldn't be tolerated by a coach in any sport, and following the embarrassment against Denmark the following month, he should have been dismissed in my book. The team has lacked confidence for a long time, and we need to rebuild that, not reward such a mentality. At that point, I'd have hired Conor MacGregor as manager.

    Onwards and upwards I suppose. A new (old?) day has arrived. 20 years of no World Cup must be brought to an end.
     
  7. Zacarías

    Zacarías Member

    Benfica
    Portugal
    Jul 19, 2017
    Vila Nova de Gaia
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    I think MON was just like Trapp in a way that he was a one trick pony, stubborn to change his tactics when they were desperately needed, and he was too loyal to certain players, such as Christie. Also, similar to the way that Trapp handled (or excluded) talented lads like Wes, by not giving Doherty a go, or pushing somebody like Crowley to get in the set-up, who are clearly the most in-form Irish (qualified in Crowley’s case) players at the moment. Also, MON didn’t care about the future. That’s the same reason he made his 80 man preliminary call-ups to a bunch of tried, tested, and usually failed dinosaurs, still relying on the likes of Walters, Murphy, Whelan and McGeady for the last campaign, although Whelan and Walters have been one of the most consistent and dedicated players in recent years. Hopefully with Mick being a former captain of the NT, and knowing the agreement to get Kenny in after Euro 2020, he will look to rebuild and hopefully strengthen Ireland for the future with young Irish lads, as well as those on the fence with dual nationalities. Look at how many gems he’s lost out on, or potentially has given away by failing to cap? We all know the Grealish fiasco, yet he didn’t learn from it. Rice is technically still an Irish player, but he could’ve put this all to bed and potentially saved him as an Irish player if he would’ve capped him when they were up 2-0 against Moldova in Dublin. Case closed. The same now with Jimmy Dunne, who is reportedly being persuaded to switch to the North. He got it right with Obafemi, but imagine the quality he would’ve had with Grealish and Roce in the midfield? That’s another thing, what midfield? MON was just like Trapp in a way that he never believed in the lads. He thought they were sh!te and couldn’t play, thus resorting to hoof ball. Also, you’re right. His stay was a year too long. He should’ve been gone after the disaster against Denmark at Lansdowne. As somebody who has been following Irish football for over 12 years, I’ve suffered through a lot of heartache just as you, and I believe the only REAL solution for fixing the problems with the LOI and the NT points at one person, John Delaney. The sooner they replace Delaney and his thugs in the FAI, the better. But of course, that’s a different situation in itself!
     
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  8. SebastianK

    SebastianK Member

    Apr 12, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    I fully agree.

    It will be interesting to see which young players we begin to call up. I agree that Obafemi is a good call-up, and you're right to wonder what kind of setup we'd have had with Grealish and Rice. I worry how many promising young athletes in a country with a population of only 4 million, have decided to give up on soccer and have decided to go with rugby, where we are currently killing it and are ranked #2 in the world, or have gone with traditional gaelic sports instead. Back in 2012, the FAI renewed Trap's contract through the 2014 World Cup qualifiers before the Euros began that year (which he should have been sacked after), and then in 2016, they gave O'Neill a four year extension not knowing what the 2018 qualifiers would look like, so obviously the FAI have a bad habit of counting their chickens before the eggs hatch. That's a very unhealthy practice to keep. Now all eyes will be on the Euro group draw on Sunday. I used to try to predict which draw would be best for us, but I'm not sure that I know any longer, and with recent results it has become harder to care. God be with us!
     
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  9. Zacarías

    Zacarías Member

    Benfica
    Portugal
    Jul 19, 2017
    Vila Nova de Gaia
    Nat'l Team:
    Portugal
    The U17 and U19 squads have some good players, like Adam idah, Glen McAuley, Lee O’Connor, Troy Parrott and Jonathan Afolabi, but we’ll see how they develop and make of their careers. I think it’ll be a long time before we see the next Duffer or Keane. It shows you how a poor manager can ruin such a decent team. If Ireland had any sort of manager who could actually play decent football instead of Trapp, they’d have been in South Africa. He had an in prime Shay Given, John O’Shea, Richard Dunne, Damien Duff, Robbie Keane, plus a very young Aiden McGeady and Darren Gibson mixed with the likes of Glen Whelan being a decent CM, all at his disposal, and nothing. Hopefully Mick can turn things around, but things still look bleak and far from optimistic with current crop of aging journeymen being selected.
     
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  10. Celtic & Napule

    Celtic & Napule New Member

    Celtic & Napule
    Nigeria
    Jan 5, 2019
    IRA
    Bring in Neil Lennon, Neil bleeds Green.
     
  11. Celtic & Napule

    Celtic & Napule New Member

    Celtic & Napule
    Nigeria
    Jan 5, 2019
    IRA
    Time to change The Flag to Green White Gold. No orange on my Flag.

    Bring in Neil, some true Fenian Celtic Spirit from the o6 we need.
     
  12. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Ireland replaced one dinosaur with another and yesterday scraped to a 1-0 win against Gibraltar. They were 1.03 to win pre match. Embarrassing scoreline to walk away with. The whole organisation needs a clear out and youth football restructured with a vision for 10-20 years down the line. Unfortunately the old boys club won't cut each other out of a very comfortable job.
     
  13. Dyvel

    Dyvel Member+

    Jul 24, 1999
    The dog end of a day gone by
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    It's embarrassing. Soccer gets nothing these days. Even GAA teams in Connemara get more attention than youth soccer.
     
  14. NY Hoop

    NY Hoop Member

    Shamrock Rovers
    Jun 3, 2003
    Washington D.C.
    Club:
    Shamrock Rovers
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Asinine comment.

    Three colours on our flag for a reason.
     
  15. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001
    Interesting developments in Nottingham. O'Neill and Keane were at the helm with Keane joining later, I think. Anyway, last week, Keane resigns on the basis that he wants to resurrect his career as a manager (good luck there, because he's crap). So today, O'Neill is fired after irreconcilable with the players.

    A few questions:
    1. Did Keane know O'Neill was going and that he would not be offered the job, so he left under his own steam?
    2. If Forest don't want Keane, the notion of resurrecting his managerial career sounds bollocks doesn't it?
    3. The suspicion with O'Neill, especially in his latter days with Ireland, was that the game had passed him by. That not preparing opposition files, videos and training sessions is just not the way of the game any more. Did the players and Forest see this?
    4. If Keane is pretty much unemployable as a manager, doesn't the same probably apply to O'Neill also?
    5. TV punditry anyone?
     
  16. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    The interview reveals why Keane may struggle with management. Less to do with his quality and more to do with his drive as a serial winner. With that comes extremes and it must frustrate him no end to see such average players be content to just making a living and getting by without really pushing themselves and doing something remarkable.

    The game ahs changed, we see that with players like Pogba and how they react when challenged and the power they have. In this sense its changed for the worst. I think Keane could do something big in management but it would be very difficult because he would need to find some guys with drive like himself to manage the dressing room and the rest of the group to be humble and give themselves over to the team 100% and always want to push more.

    There is soo much money in the game you have 2nd rate trash like Walters thinking they are somebody. Football has lost its sense of humbleness of his Keanes playing time.
     
  17. Samarkand

    Samarkand Member+

    May 28, 2001

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