There'a a real interesting story in the Boston Globe today about a Pats fan having his tickets confiscated and being assaulted my the security director at the stadium.
that was a horribly written article. did not mention what the laws are that pertain to the legal resale of tix. didn't tell what the tix holder's experience with ebay has been in the past (prob. none for "selling"). didn't say exactly why the sale was never completed. and the "assualt" of the guy by mark briggs is never coroborrated(sp?) by anyone....not even the guy's lawyer i don't believe. shoddy work.
Well, the following line is what caught my attention: "On Tuesday, a clerk magistrate in Wrentham District Court found probable cause for the complaint to go forward against Briggs." It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. The Magpie
Expensive seats His seats sound like they were right near mine (for the Rev). Look on the back of your Revolution season tickets. I'd expect similar language on Patsy tix, too. Resale or attempted resale is a contract violation, not violation of a law. That said, how many hundreds of thousands of tix have been resold over corporate networks and in the parking lot? This guys mistake was doing it in such a public forum as eBay and attempting to profit from it. So, was the high bidder a mole from Briggs' office?
I've always found this topic fascinating. It would seem, that with very little effort, the Revs and Patriots in particular, could easily turn over 10% to 30% of its season ticket base with similar violations using this type of zero tolerance policy. Assign Joe Intern to a daily peruse of E-bay, the Globe/Herald, or a call about to any of the dozens of yellow page "ticket agents". It would likely yield thousands of "attempted resale" violations of season tickets. But why p_ss off your supporters? And who exactly is the party in need of protection here? Mark Briggs -- just a Wembley hooligan after all? ;^) Alan
Do you think if he had used U Bid.com the Krafts would have let him go , since they are a sponsor of Gillette Staduim.
Exactly. I have no clue why they went after this one guy in particular. These "tough guy" messages could easily bite the Pats in the ass if they ever start losing again, especially if it plays out towards Briggs being guilty. People don't forget things like that, and they have unique ways of coming to the forefront after a few losses. We've all been there before about Rev security, no need to go down that route again.
(of course, I forgoing "Innocent until Proven Guilty" here, but...) This couldn't happen to a nicer guy (ow, I think my tongue just went through my cheek). He's a real people person, as long as thos people are the people that work for him. He's Director of Secuirty, not head of Public Relations. Oh well... And the Ubid.com statement above had me in stitches... - Jon
Exactly Jon. Not only in the eyes the gentleman who lost his tickets and was allegedly assaulted, this is not good for PR whatsoever. One way or another, you'll see some spin/damage control very soon.
From the back of this year's Pats season tickets: This ticket and all season tickets are revocable licenses. The Patriots reserve the right to revoke each license,in their sole discretion, at any time for any reason. (it then goes on to list some rules and such- then in capital letters is the following: ANY NON-LICENSED INDIVIDUAL RESELLING THIS TICKET BY ANY METHOD INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, IN PERSON, ON AN AUCTION WEB SITE, OR OTHERWISE OVER THE INTERNET, AND ANY LICENSED INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY RESELLING THIS TICKET IN VIOLATION OF APPLICABLE LAW, IS SUBJECT TO ARREST, LEGAL ACTION AND LOSS OF SEASON TICKET PRIVLEDGES. It then goes on to list a lot of other rules that includes "expressly prohibit the use in promotional or advertising purposes" I wonder how many coporate accounts give them away without viloating this one?? and this one too: "not for use in contests or sweepstakes" I find this to be very interesting, especially since all kinds of people and businesses regularly use Patriot tickets as "prizes" for all kinds of things- and advertise it openly in print, on the radio and television? "I even know someone" who gives some tickets to a charity each year that uses them as a fundraising raffle prize!? Oh well I guess if someone on the "waiting list" really wanted to get tickets- they could eliminate an awful lot of current season ticket holders- without too much effort!!!! Jon
Another thing I cant understand is as of right now there are 15 people selling tickets on E Bay why havent they stopped them either
I heard about this story n the news its kinda sad lol give the man a break and give him his season tickets back he didn't know
My biggest issue by far is that Briggs chose to target one particular fan, who if you read the article Nat posted is as loyal as they come. This seems more and more like a "I'm macho and tough" act more than any concern for the integrity of tickets or the Pats whatsoever. If Briggs really cared about resales he'd monitor things more carefully.
I am up for trashing the Kraft's organizations as much as everyone else, but does anyone actually know what happened aside from the article? I mean from what I have heard taking season tickets away is a common practice and this guy wasn't singled out. And as far as him not knowing and that he should get his tickets back, it says it on the back of the tickets?? How can you not know?? I am sure I will get ridiculed for this post, but I beleive that people should not assume they know what is happening before all the facts are evident.
We'll find out soon enough about the individual incident. Well, if they took away season tickets from about 50 people for selling on eBay, it would get reported in the news somehow. That's what leads me to believe this individual was singled out.
I am not sure as to whether this guy was singled out or not- but at best it was certainly "selective" revocation- since there are many companies, and individuals that "openly" violate one or two of the things listed on the back of the ticket- According to one tv report of the incident- the Pats offered this guy season tickets in a different location (back corner)in exchange for his "dropping of legal actions"? Jon
The Patriots set the price of each ticket. That cost is what someone has to pay the Patriots for the right to watch one of their games in person. What legal right do they have to tell the holder what he can or cannot do with it once he's paid their price? I know they specifically set out their policies on the back of the ticket and whoever buys it must agree to that policy. Your choice is not to go see a professional football game. But I'm wondering if a large group of season ticket holders got together and filed a class action suit against the team(s) and the League, what would happen? This can't be constitutional, can it? I know the leagues and their owners have a ton of clout in Congress, but what if there were a class action suit and it could make it to the Supreme Court, then I think a lot of that clout goes out the window? I would love to see the FBI investigate the sale of tickets to not only pro sporting events, but also concerts. For example, why do ticket brokers get such choice seats and the right to put huge markups on them? Are they kicking back money to the leagues illegally? Something just isn't right.
Legal Issues I'm sorry, but I feel the need to address some of the issues raised here. 1. Someone stated that reselling tickets is not against the law but violation of the contract between the Patsies and the ticket holder. ***This is not true. There is an old state law that prohibits reselling of tickets by any unlicensed individual and only allows licensed individuals to resell tickets for $2 over face value and to recover a small service fee. A couple of years ago, a man who was arrested outside of Fenway when selling an extra ticket for face value took the city to court over the arrest and the court, I think it was the Court of Appeals, ruled that individuals not typically in the business of reselling tickets could resell an extra ticket or two for face value or less (there have been past arrests of individuals reselling tickets below face value). However, the Boston police maintain that their reading of the law still prohibits any reselling, but nearly all analysis of the issue points to those arrests being thrown out by the court based on the recent decision. Previously posted: But I'm wondering if a large group of season ticket holders got together and filed a class action suit against the team(s) and the League, what would happen? This can't be constitutional, can it? I know the leagues and their owners have a ton of clout in Congress, but what if there were a class action suit and it could make it to the Supreme Court, then I think a lot of that clout goes out the window? ***A large group of season ticket holders would not win. Notice is provided on the back of the tickets and its publicized. Revocable licenses have been supported in contract law for a very long time. Constitutional? Nearly all actions by private individuals (re: not the state) are not subject to the Constitution of either the U.S. or Mass. Even if a class action lawsuit was brought in court, it would never get out of the Massachusetts state courts (above the Supreme Judicial Court) and go the U. S. Supreme Court because this is a state law issues. Only certain types of cases, either regarding federal law or between certain entities, will be heard by the Federal Courts. Thus, Congress would never be involved in a state law issue, nor would the U.S. Supreme Court. Also, it was asked why to ticket brokers get such choice seats, because there is a whole underground of people who buy the best seats and sell them to the brokers. The brokers will pay over face value to people with the best seats (sometimes significantly over face value). However, as discussed above, they have been technically getting away with the large mark-ups. My understanding is that the MA Attorney General's office does not attempt to regulate the price gouging by licensed brokers unless they receive a complaint from a citizen.
To be honest, my concerns are more specific to the alleged actions of Mark Briggs. I have no disagreement with the organization's right to revoke the licence to a season ticket when the terms explicitly indicated have been violated by the ticket holder. Whether this is a case of selective prosecution or just some action on the part of the Patriot's front office to "set an example" doesn't really concern me. If Briggs was intimidating and threatening then that does. The Pat's could have made their point without Briggs having to play the heavy as has been portrayed in the news media. That being said, I think any number of Revolution supporters wouldn't be surprised by those actions attributed to Briggs as reported in the media. The heavyhanded approach may be necessary when dealing with some young drunken yobs out for a day at Wembley, or when consulting on security issues involving Chelsea or Arsenal, but a more nuanced approach may be better for everyone (relatively speaking) when dealing with an American sports fan. My worry is how these issues or circumstances could lend themselves to a similar situation involving MLS Cup 2002. -The Magpie Interested in how this plays out.
I remember when I was told that the new director of security in Foxboro came from Wembley. At the time I thought "great, we'll get someone who understands football, football fans and will help give the new stadium some sense of atmosphere, etc." Boy, how wrong I was! Now comes this accusation re. the Patties/e bay ticket fiasco. I don't have much sympathy for the ticket holder getting caught out on ebay. After all, if you have held seats to the games for 18 years you certainly must have a wide network of people who would use the tickets at face value and privately. Putting them on ebay is scalping, no question and, as people have pointed out, fair or not, a ticket is a revocable pass to a private event. Scalping, while done all the time by corporations, businesses and individuals is illegal. What bothers me is that if there is any truth to this story of idiotic bullying by yet another person who gets paid for the pleasure of saying no. I hope this part of the story isn't true and I agree with the Magpie that it is the most important aspect of the whole affair. JIM DOW
I do not resell my tickets to Revolution games. I'm not sure that there would be any takers. I usually give them away when I can't use them. That is if I can give them away at all. What I saw in England a few years ago, is that season ticket holders got a book with tickets. Each ticket was marked with a letter. The letter for each particular game was not made public until just before game time. In this manner, the only ticket you could sell and be sure was for the correct game, was the last remaining ticket in the book. And apparently you need the empty book if you want to renew the next year. (Someone correct me if this is not the norm, or not practiced anymore) This would stop all scalping of tickets. (Selling an entire season ticket would also give away your rights to the following year) But I don't think that they want to stop the scalping, they just don't want anybody to profit unless they get their piece of the pie. In my opinion, this is just greed, nothing more. I do not remember signing a contract when I ordered my season tickets 7 years ago. I don't remember them spelling out the terms on the back of the ticket before they cashed my numerous checks. I don't think that you can just write something after the sale on the ticket (you get the tickets just before the season starts), not when you order them. Just because they print it doesn't make it law (or correct). Just my opinion.
I am Shocked, I tell you SHOCKED that Mark Briggs, the mealy-mouthed quasi-fascist thug who is in charge of security at the Boro would do anything to jeopardise the enjoyment of an "event" at his stadium. Far be it for me to suggest that a man with such a small penile appendage and an obvious penchant for alter boys would be the type to wield his power like Tony Meola with a turkey drumstick. Maybe he and that other tough-guy ex-Manchester cop and all around skirt, Peter Bridgewater, who ran the Sad Jose Trash into the ground ought to get together for a girls night out to compare Gestapo tactics and the proper use of an eyeliner pencil. I hope he gets his shirt sued off, and they send his sorry, pathetic arse back to Salford in a paper bag. And I hope that the Krafts also take a hit in the wallet for being stupid enough to employ a worthless thug in a position of power. The Krafts, being the money-grubbing capitalist roaders and running-dog lackies that they are, only understand these things in the context of the bottom line. They have no problem tossing aside their most loyal and long-time supporters like last night’s condom, knowing full well that it can be replaced by another. That may be true amongst the Pats and other NFL teams as well as at some of the bigger clubs around the world, but it’s a horrible way to do business. Cheers, "Red"
It's probably covered by the state's sales contract law. I know there's been some discussion about issues related to legislation to extend this to cover computer software... there are a lot of people who feel that the legislation now proposed was written by a few large vendors and is generally contrary to the interests of consumers. As such, even if you didn't sign a contract, it's possible that there was an implicit sales contract imposed by law.
Re: Legal Issues Sorry, I mistakenly hit the "submit reply button". Anyway, I appreciate you setting the record straight assuming what you say is correct. I am not a lawyer, but I still maintain that the laws that govern this stuff are more than a little unfair. And I suppose you could go back to the "is MLB or the NFL a monopoly?" question. In reality they are as there is no suitable alternative to either league if you're a baseball or football fan (same with basketball and hockey too). So is it fair to say you play by their rules or you can't participate (i.e. lose the right to purchase your season tickets if you resell).? It's like the leagues are saying, here's the product, it's ours, and these are our rules. Take it or leave it. And oh, by the way we're going to hold your local and state governments hostage for public dollars so they can build us our stadiums so we can get rich or we'll pick up our tent and leave town. It's just not right. Where ticket policies are concerned, they're a private enterprise. Yet, they hit up the general public (and granted Kraft is not as guilty of this as any other owner who's built a stadium in the last 30 years) for cash to build their stadiums, and I won't even get into how EVERYONE, sports fans or not, has to pay higher cable fees because of the rights fees ESPN pays to these leagues....... It's all just a bit putrid. I also, realize, however that the situation isn't going to change anytime soon. And no one really seems to mind because no one complains about it.