We got 1 point. We typically get 6. I guess I was going for that, because we dropped 3 of those points under Jurgen, and 3 of them under Bruce. The other 3 disaster-drops were also under Bruce. That was sort of the point I was getting at, that if you want to blame Jurgen, you can point to 3 lost points in 2 matches, whereas Bruce lost 6 in 8. If you want to blame Bruce, he dropped twice as many points.
Bruce Arena picking the wrong players, picking the wrong tactics and raping a small kitten are not signs of a systematic failure of the USMNT. They are signs of good old regular failure. Sysytematic failure would assume that there are no players from which to chose because US soccer has failed at every level to develop players. Given the discussions on here about who should and should not have been playing, it appears there is wide agreement that the US actually does have players BS posters think would have qualified. Systematic failure would imply that over time the USMNT has underperformed. Failure to qualify for a WCup for the first time since 1990 is not systematic, it is simple failure. Bruce Arena is not a system. He is a manager. He failed to qualify for a World Cup so he quit. Maybe the system failure is that he should have been fired? Klinsi is not a system, and he was not a complete failure. Before he failed, he succeeded. After he succeeded, he failed. The system failure there might be a tendency to hang on to national team managers past a single cycle, or past a single four year span. IMO, holding on to national team managers beyond a cycle is a mistake, they get stale and it is a very odd job to stay fresh in. There are rare exceptions and none of those have ever managed the US. MAybe that is a system problem. Maybe a failure to develop more managers and coaches is systematic. But failing to qualify simply sucks. What you´re complaining about is just old fashioned failure.
It's typical in American 2 party politics. Both candidates suck but partisans on either side are fervent in their belief the problem is the other side. Klinsmann was fine for one term, good even. He should never have been re-upped. Arena was a joke years ago. Fingers point to Gulati but he's gone too so moving forward would be best at this point.
I was never really arguing about anything related to systematic failure, so not really sure what you're getting at. That argument doesn't interest me at all. What interests me is the argument that many knew something was wrong (something the players and coaches still refuse to acknowledge), called it out, offered solutions, and were shouted down because we needed to go with our LIONS and the experience to get to the WC. Sounds like you're pretty much agreeing with that, so again, not sure why you're so adamant about the definition of systems and failures. Yawn.
Sorry then, was going from the thread title and thinking that was the base on which your argument was built. My bad.
I'm not in the blame Jurgen or Blame Arena crowd, I'm in the blame everyone crowd, I guess you can call me a systemic. I've looked at this enough to say that we can see rot all over the place at every level. Just a short snyopsis: Incompetent's in key role's at the Youth Level: Check Incompetent's in key roles at the senior level: Check Incompetent's in management: Check Incompetence in player performance: Check Layers of evidence of incompetence at all level's in terms of performance: Check U-17's a Failed program from 2007-2013 U-20''s a Failed program from 2009-2013/15 U-23's a Failed program from 2004-Present USMNT Fails to qualify for 2018 WC (and you can add the percentage of flat out poor performances in the vast bulk of the games at the WC from 2006-2014) Patronage rather than Performance based Program: Check Loyalty over Quality: Check Money before Program: Check Connections over Quality: Check For me that is the very essence of a systemic problem in US Soccer. I don't see it as merely a question of: Do we have players good enough to qualify? Because the answer for that to me is, "So <word I can't say> what? We play in one of the three worst confederations in the world with only 2 consistently competitive teams (including ourselves) at the international level, and only 3 teams that have ever generated any results. As such, we should be able to qualify playing drunk, and high in half of our matches. Add in the $$$, the infrastructure, and the population base of interested youth players to choose from, and you can almost include "dead" to the scenarios we could qualify under. For me, a systemic problem is in place if there are fundamental problems at youth scouting and development, at the coaching levels, in terms of player performance in terms of both quality of play and performance, and in terms of how the F.O./or management functions, and finally in terms of evidence based results.If you look at all those angles you can see we either have had, or continue to have severe issues in every single one of them. Scouting is garbage, development was horrific for the 1990-1996 generation (1995 had a few high marks) and that is unforgivable considering that's the first generation that grew up with soccer covered by the media and perpetually on the air, with a professional league in place, and with genuine avenues out of the country and into long term careers in place: there were players in those generations, I'm betting #1 we didn't identify that vast bulk of them and #2 we didn't develop the ones we actually did find effectively. Development has also been bad, particularly with that generation. Coaching: we continually higher MLS lifer hacks instead of genuinely talented coaches. We obsessively bring in, "connected" guys who understand MLS and are friends with the right people. This is how we get a hamster wheel of the talentless with guys like Rongen, ABMOD, Hackworth and to some extent Ramos in place over outsiders with hard truths to tell. Player Performance: It goes without sayting, with very few exceptions, the entire performance of the USMNT's has gone into the tank with brief moments of surfacing, like a submarine, to suggest possibilities in 2006 against Italy, in 2009 at the Confed Cup, in 2010 w/the 2nd half against Slovenia and performance against Algeria (even if the scoreline didnt show it) that game against Portugal until the brutal ending in '14, but other than that, most players have not lived up to the hype, have been inconsistent, injured, or just downright disappointments, culminating in the abject disaster that was 2015-2017 Management/FO: The entire system is based on patronage, connections and money, rather than insight and talent. The entire lot should be chucked, and we should be recruiting the living hell out of the guys in Belgium, France, and Germany (where they are making huge gains now) as well as the best and brightest in Latin America, and hell, Iceland. Chuck out EVERYONE. Results: Total garbage. 2008-2013 was utter garbage at all levels for the most part, 2015-2017 was the nadir in many ways of the USMNT, finding new lows not reached since the bad old days of Reagan Part I and even earlier. . This is how I come up with systemic, and fundamentally believe it. yes we have good signs with development in terms of the 1995's, and the 1997-2001 or so generations right now, but how much of that is about just who happened to be born, and noticed by sheer accident as it had to do with the system working? I don't know, and I see more then enough evidence to justify sending guys in to evaluate this at all levels, and then burn the sucker to the ground if necessary and rebuild it, or if the recommendations are different, then apply the recs, and do this with talented proven people who've rebuilt programs in Germany, France, and Belgium since the early 2000's, or even look at Uruguay, and Chile in our backyard, and bring in talent from there, or Colombia too. I want guys with proven track records at the highest level doing this, women too, whomever's got the skills. Bring in the math geeks, bring in everybody and build it system wide, and for the umpteenth time, higher the technical director and GM before you hire the freaking coach? If any of the rumored offers were true w/coaches, everyone even tangentially related to the hiring process should be s canned immediately. You can't have a head coach who isn't the TD's and GM's choice to run the program, the TD and/or GM are in charge of building the system, w/the coach that shares their philosophy applying it. Any other design is 1000% idiocy.
What's even crazier is last cycle Mexico made the playoffs with 11 points and a -2 GD and we couldn't this cycle with 12 points and a +4 GD.
The problem was that we re-upped Klinsmann before the 2014WC even occurred. In one sense, it was sorta understandable from Gulati's point of view. 2013 was arguably the best year in the history of the program from a results point of view. (From March to November we played 17 games, and only lost one. And there were all sorts of rumors about Klinsmann getting club offers at the time. So basically Gulati was under the gun to either extend or risk losing a guy who was getting results at the time.................................. I'm of the fervent opinion that a national team coach should only stick around for one cycle. Its good to freshen things up with a new set of eyes on the player pool.
That’s a good point about Gulati’s decision and maybe revealing about our place as a program. Are we a National team program that can afford not to “sell” high on performance? Both for coaches and players. In many programs and teams, good leadership rides that fine line between moving on while it’s hot and picking up bargains when you can. I think we failed at that for both coaching and player selection. A shrewd president may know you let Klinsmann go all day long after 2014. A shrewd coach would see start phasing guys in on the upward trend [Pulisic] and guys out when they start stepping back [Zusi]. We definitely have been a program that is uncomfortable or incapable of identifying/taking appropriate risks. I know for a fact and it’s well documented we haven’t been doing it all for up and coming coaches. That is a topic well covered hear. Hell after following FC Dallas I was sure Pareja would be absorbed by the USSF.
U17 2013 Did not qualify 2015 21st place U20 2011 Did not qualify U23 2012 Did not qualify 2016 Did not qualify USMNT 2017 Did not qualify for the World Cup There is something wrong with our system. We as a nation do not develop many good players. We have a male population of ~ 170M . We can't develop 30 good male soccer players?
Remember, soccer is a minor sport in the US, unlike in Mexico. When the US didn't qualify this time around, it was met with apathy and indifference in the US sporting media. It got, at most, 3 seconds of coverage. Not enough people care to try to change anything. I'll never forget Dan Patrick's comment to Landon Donovan when Donovan was interviewed about the T&T debacle: "See you in 4 years." That's how much our sporting media cares. Zero interest. Not qualifying has set the program back a generation.