(No More ) New Fekir's in a New Town: Summer Transfers II

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by EruditeHobo, Jul 17, 2018.

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  1. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's definitely good enough to be a squad player, but he wouldn't massively change the dynamic of our midfield.

    With Milner and Lallana likely to move on in coming season, we'll need to replace our experience and at 27/28 we'd get a few good seasons out of him as the experienced head.

    He'd likely be on 150K/wk, but as a free, even at that wage it would be a good deal and save money for some other signings.
     
  2. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No reason to shoo Milner away... Lallana, after another year, sure. Turning Lallana into Ramsey is a clear upgrade.

    Bobby's backup is the next most important area IMO, especially if they can get someone that can play as a pressing, mobile 9 and also out wide. I don't even know what that list looks like, or what that player would cost in the current market, but if they get that it would be a good signing.
     
  3. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ... but what he's good at is sitting deep, capably keeping possession, getting the ball to better dribblers through smart short passing, while always being able to find the forwards with an accurate long ball.

    There's a reason he's not playing the same 13/14 role; Klopp ain't Brenny, and Jordo ain't 24 anymore. Gini, Milner, Ox, Naby, Lallana, there's 5 for 2 advanced CM spots. Hendo and Fabinho clearly seem to be the 6s, as far as Klopp is concerned.
     
  4. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Although he's also played Wijnaldum and Milner in that role as well?
     
  5. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #680 EruditeHobo, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
    Don't know if Milner has played there, technically, which match was that?

    Gini has, because Hendo had a long world cup and because Milner was injured against Napoli... I think technically that counts as Gini in the deeper role, according to heat maps. But when Hendo is deemed "healthy" and part of plan A, he generally plays as a 6. In fact I just looked up that in the past 2+ seasons -- Hendo is deployed by Klopp in that deeper "DM" role about 5 times more often than in the more forward role.

    So while it's not impossible Klopp moves him forward -- especially if there's some injury situation, or formation experimentation -- as far as I can tell there's very little evidence to suggest that it's realistic; in a 4-3-3, Klopp plays Hendo deeper as there are simply better options in the box-to-box CM roles.

    Like Gini! As evidenced by this really good season he's having playing mostly in that more advanced position.

    All that said to my eyes they do tend to rotate in-match, and pop up in different positions like the forwards do... so I think "the 6" probably means less now than it did even a season or two ago.
     
  6. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #681 EruditeHobo, Oct 10, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
    This season Hendo has played 5 matches as DM; all were starts, and he went at least 71 minutes in all of them (full 90 3 times)

    He's played CM (with someone behind him) 6 times; all of them were sub appearances & in 5 of the 6 he didn't play more than 30 minutes.

    But I was wrong and can't edit... it's not 5-1 with him playing deeper, it's 4-1.
    Also, obviously Keita was injured against Napoli, not Milner.
     
  7. StiltonFC

    StiltonFC He said to only look up -- Guster

    Mar 18, 2007
    SoCal
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At Maggies, that's where he played. He can adapt to the deeper-lying role, but it ain't the best position to take advantage of his skill set.

    The tricky part is that Keita and Gini would occupy the same/similar roles, so the question is whether to play Keita in a box-to box position with Hendo or to play him in a less advanced position and leave Hendo out.
     
  8. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gini played a lot at LM that season with Newcastle as well.

    I don't see any evidence that Keita is competing with Hendo for minutes. Not positionally at least. Naby is mostly playing LCM, and is rarely the deepest midfielder. He comes from deep with his dribbles sometimes? But he's almost always got someone behind him or next to him. And he has also played in that old Coutinho 10/LW position, at least once to close out a match.
     
  9. delaynomo

    delaynomo Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Don't know, am relying on memory! Might not even be an entire match but a fairly sure he has at some point?

    Wijnaldum even played a game at CB so have got to assume Klopp has some confidence in his defensive capabilities?

    Yes, think that is generally true.

    Yes, think that is generally true.

    Agree.
     
  10. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry to hijack.

    I want a backup 9 for Xmas! To replace Origi or Solanke.
     
  11. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Klopp initially played Hendo further forward but ended up moving him back into the 6 for a couple reasons: 1) He needed someone other than Lucas to play there and Klopp always tries to solve problems with players already in the squad and 2) Hendo is a poor finisher and Klopp wanted more goals from that position.

    But the squad has evolved over the past 3 years, so while the solution to our midfield has been answered by playing Hendo as the 6, its not necessarily going to be the best solution moving forward.

    There will be games that suit Hendo as a 6 and there will be games that don't. We've already seen that Hendo is the one dropping in and out with Keita, while Gini and Milner have been constants. Much of that has to do with preseason, but as Fabinho continues to bed in, the person it directly impacts the most is Hendo and moving him forward is a pretty good solution to getting him his minutes.
     
  12. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would be a dereliction of duty if our squad planning for 12 to 18 months from now still includes a 33 - 34 year old Milner playing significant minutes.

    He may be the fittest in the squad, but it only took 11 games of pretty much playing 90 in every game to break him. It's naive to believe he can continue at that pace for multiple seasons to come.
     
  13. newterp

    newterp Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 6, 2007
    North Potomac, MD
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes - I’ve got to believe that this is Miller’s last full year with Liverpool. Next season if he stays (depending on Leeds) he would be a squad player at best. I know I know this year he’s playing a lot - but thank the World Cup and Naby and Fab needing time and Lallanas injury.
     
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  14. SamScouse

    SamScouse Member+

    Jun 1, 2015
    Toronto
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I hope he stays - can't think of a better player to have on the bench next season. however he may want to up his playing minutes somewhere else.

    I can also see him stepping into a coaching role with us with no problem at all. he's a very very smart player, and if any player can get yoots to pay attention .....
     
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  15. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's definitely the type of player we should be finding a role for once their playing days are over.
     
  16. dcc134

    dcc134 Member+

    Liverpool FC
    May 15, 2000
    Hummelstown, PA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ox will be back next year and depending on the development of Jones, Woodburn and Grujic, does Milner get more than 1000 minutes?
     
  17. speker

    speker Member+

    May 16, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Milner is a hard one to predict given he's such a phenomenal athlete who has reinvented his career a couple times already, I wouldn't rule out him perhaps becoming Klopp's go to utility man next season filling in everywhere and anywhere. Unless of course he chooses to move on to somewhere like Leeds where he'd be guaranteed more playing time and finish out his career back where it began.

    I worry about Ox and whether he'll ever fully recover from that horrendous knee injury. Returning to football is one thing but getting back to his previous level is the big issue. I really hope he can . As for the others I can see Lallana and probably Grujic moving on after this season , Woodburn hasn't been progressing as expected , Jones remains a solid prospect though.
     

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