I am not sure what i said, but i have never had intention to say that hardwork makes a difference in prime vs prime situation, strictly longevity, as you said. I was mostly arguing that it is obvious why Ronaldinho didn't have as long lasting career as Cristiano (he stopped working hard off the pitch) and that that trait of him inevitably makes difference on all time list in people's mind (should it be that way? i am not sure) I agree that dribbling, being essentialy a creative type of work, inevitably brings dose of inconsistency because you can't be as consistent with dribbling as with some other non creative football work. I also agree that people tend to have bias towards players who don't do a creative work. As you said, they are viewed as consistent players, but the truth is that just the things they do are easier to be consistent at. That's all fine, although i am not sure how consistent i think Ronaldinho was at his peak. It was long time ago and i haven't rewatched any of his matches recetnly, so i can't give an accurate evaluation.. that's the debate of its own, but i agree that there is bias towards players who don't do creative type of work. That talk about Ronaldinho being lazy wasn't meant to critcize Ronaldinho as being incosistent on match to match basis, but merely to explain why he haven't kept his body in shape over the years and why he fell of his prime so soon. What happens on the pitch, how much hardwork player put on the pitch don't necessarly correspond to the hardwork off the pitch. Btw, i should have probably said this before, i don't think of creative work as a hardwork. Hardwork in my book is something simple and repetitive that has to be done. The problem we are having here is mostly definitional one. I don't think working hard is equal to hardwork. You can work hard on a creative task (as Ronaldinho did in his prime), but when you say hardwork it's mostly considered as everything, but a creative work. Ronaldinho didn't put in hardwork on the pitch, but he was working hard on creative tasks... people don't realize that, that's why there is bias towards hardwork. We sort of live in culture that values hardwork over creative work, which is pity. Anyhow, i see where you are coming from, and although you might think we are not on the same page, we are.
This is a very good video. Expectations that he would go on to have the same longevity as Giggs, Maldini etc. might be premature (not that this matters).
Ronaldo doesn't have momentum and currently lacks confidence. That's all. Although that was the case many times over his career what is the difference now is that whole Real struggles so he missed help when he needs it. That's why Messi and Ronaldo have huge benefits playing for great teams like Barcelona and Real. When they get in a goal drought or whatever they usually have team by their side to put them back in the right frame of mind and gives them a momentum back. That's something they both lack on international level so you can see how much their stats differ. These things about Ronaldo being significantly physically weaker this season than last season are absolute bs. He just needs a little bit of luck and support by his team and soon enough he will be banging them just like last season. Btw, he was in the same talks last season, then lucky hattrick vs Atletico happened and it changed everyting, then, later on, he went on to go into another drop of form and they again shifted it with another good performance and then champions league episode happened with few offsides, getting even more momentum. Strictly speaking, Ronaldo is in no way inferior player this season than he was last season. This is primary example on how little things (that are out of your control like performance of your teamamtes and luck) are signifcant in football. Momentum means a lot. So when i argue, for example, that Maradona gained momentum in WC 1986 by scoring the goal with his hand, that Messi in some parrelel universe would be cherished for 2 unbelievable chance he created for Iniesta and Suarez vs Juve, that the end result doesn't necessarly correspond to the quality put by individuals and so on,... it makes some sense. That's why we need longevity in first place. Right now we know Ronaldo is just out of form because he has been doing it for past 10 years. Ronaldo will go on to have a greater longevity than both Maldini and Giggs, especially Giggs. As leadleader said, players like Maldini have easier tasks to be consistent at, but in relative terms scoring so many goals for so long is better than being a great defender for 15-20 years.
Actually its relevant for this thread. I wonder how much this poor season that he's having is related to him having twins recently. Could also be a lack of hunger. He's won everything the past 18 months and might need to go through a year of winning nothing to get that hunger back.
I don`t deny for a second that real madrid plays a huge role in getting ronaldo his service that he demands. it`s obvious that he is looked for almost exclusively over other teammates. but even at manchester united, ronaldo was scoring tons of goals because of his runs into the box. and don´t forget he didn`t come into man united as a superstar with specialn treatment. on the contrary, many of his teammates i am sure despised his game coming into the team. how many players can you name that have taken the role that ronaldo did on manchester united. i mean, let`s be fair. i am the first to tell you, that ronaldo from 2013 onwards has been suppar by a long shot as far as overall play is
very excellent point! dribbling, and attacking consistently, requires a great deal of energy just as defensive work. which is why it is no coincidence that defending takes away a players offensive abilities.
i definitely don`t think it`s for a lack of hunger. CR7 celebrates every goal, including a penalty as if it`s one of the greatest goals he has scored. unfortunately, it`s just a really bad patch of form for whatever reason. but his game has been declining for years and many people have refused to acknowledge it. even last season, that period from April to may, kept people from realizing that Cr7s game has gone down. if CR7 were to have another 2-3 month brilliant period, people would completely forget about the last 8 months. apart from CR7s goal scoring and particularly service from other teammates as opposed to individual efforts, Cr7s game offers very little if anything as far as winning is concerned. and it`s been like that for a few years now, although worse now than before.
More or less exactly my point. The so-called 'creative work' is, not coincidentally, very physical work, but it just happens to be a visibly and theoretically different form of physical work compared to the so-called 'hard work' that is traditional in Europe. I've pretty much watched most of the relevant players from the post-1998 era, and I have never, not ever, watched a player whom is both a great dribbler and also offers the same hard work as Michael Ballack, Steven Gerrard, or Frank Lampard. Maybe there is an exception here and there, though of course I can't think of one at the moment. To be fair: to call it 'subpar' is probably an exaggeration, but definitely, Ronaldo's overall playing style has been very ordinary in my opinion since season 2011-12. In other words, I think season 2010-11 was his last season as a legitimate scorer-and-dribbler who could influence the game in various ways other than by purely finishing well assisted goals.
If someone still remembers, after watching Juve vs Tottenham game, is anyone convinced yet that Eriksen would be a better fit for Barcelona than Coutinho, especially for this Valverde's very patient and reserved Barcelona team? Eirksen is like more suited (to Barcelona) version of Rakitić. Shorter, quicker, more agile, better at dead balls, more technique, runs more often, makes better runs.. An absolute pleasure watching him play.
I don't know who he'd be perfect for, but I thought Dembele was Spurs best player. He was their best player against us as well, imo.
I think what will make Coutinho a bigger asset for Barca is his versatility. I don't think, for instance, Eriksen could play the Neymar-role too effectively.
I was raving about him 5 years ago and ever since ... got slaughtered for daring to suggest he'd be great for Barca
What makes you think Barca needs another Neymar-role type of player? They have been playing without Neymar this season, and you tell me if they were successful or unsuccessful in doing it? Let me give you a hint, final of cdr and 7 points ahead of the 2nd team in league... And i wouldn't agree Coutinho is more versitile player in general.. don't be afraid, i won't get into it agian. I am just giving everyone a reminder of my fairly accurate analysis. (Eriksen statistcally covered the most ground yesterday)
Matches like yesterday one prove how Cristiano Ronaldo has changed the football . It does not matter which player create great chances for teammates or If a player is Clinical or not in 1vs1 situation. It only matters If he managed to score or not. He already won 2 last ballon D'ors based on performances like yesterday one. I can see him winning one more playing this role, a great athete can save energy and put great numbers on pks, tap ins and rebounds even in his mid 30s.
since you asked... don`t take this personally as i don`t mean to offend you as i consider you as someone who has very good judgement on the topic of football. but no way. based on his qualities as a player, i see him being another gomes at best. if he can`t even stand out as the best player by a distance on tottenham, how the hell is he going to look on barcelona. look at a player like coutinho, who was clearly considered the best player on liverpool, as far as technicality and desicion making is concerned. but next to a supposedly, aging iniesta who is not who he once was, iniesta just looks a cut above coutinho. 1)eriksen more agile as rakitc?! seem pretty close to me, and i would also consider rakitic faster as well. 2) barcelona don`t need anybody who is good at dead ball situations. messi is clearly more lethal in that category. 3)more technique than rakitic?? really? looking good at tottenham and looking good at barcelona are 2 different things. just look at how great players like fabregas, coutinho, and neymar were exposed for their decision making when playing with such players after being considered great technicians. neymar in his 1st season. 4) however, eriksen does make more runs going forward than rakitic, but ONLY because rakitic is playing the role that is given to him specifically by his coach. don`t forget that rakitic played attacking mid at sevilla and many schalke fans were clueless at the now subdued role that rakitic has taken at barcelona. by the way, rakitic is playing superb for barcelona this season! like i said if barcelona are trying to bring technicians, i don`t see why eriksen would even be considered. as i said before, eriksen is hardly considered, the top 2 players on the team, often considered behind deli alli and kane in the last couple of years. in addition, you have someone like @poetgooner who believes dembele is even more impressive than eriksen. however, i`m not sure how many people believe that. i`m not saying eriksen is not a top player. but when you consider him to the likes of the real madrids and barcelonas of the world, as far as a technician goes, he can`t even sit at the same dinner table as iniesta, xavi, busquets, modric, and kroos.
this comment is not in touch with reality and sounds more like a fanboy teenage response that i commonly see on youtube that i debated whether i should respond to. talking about how CR7 is in his prime at 32-33 years old because despite how poorly he has played the whole season but he did score 2 goals last weekend in la liga that did not come as a result of his playmaking. sorry if this takes offense but it is just so hard to accept that people can have such an opinion. and that someone, despite how poorly he has played he is a candidate for world player because he scored 2 goals highly dependent on his teammates in a game he did not play well in. although CR7 deserves, huge respect for understanding the concept of getting the job done and having the killer instinct, something which neymar will have learned after losing to real madrid. at this point, neymar is light years ahead of CR7 at this point (obviously an exaggeration but you should get my point). yes, it does matter which player creates chances because without those players, CR7 would not be getting his tap ins and his penalties. at this point in his career, CR7 is the farthest thing from a playmaker.
again, very good point that you made but i would have to disagree with the list you have. just my opinion. modern day players i would consider good defenders, with dribbling that is an asset to their game are modric and pogba. the 2 that immediately come to mind. but maybe this depends on what degree of dribbling, considered `good`, that we are talking about.
Sadly that's my fear ... he will quite probably win the B D'or again just die to the politics involved ..
Haha You did not get It, I was not clear enough. I was trying to say how Cristiano (alongside Perez, Mendes and co) has changed the criteria that ordinary fans use to Judge what is 'greatness' or what makes someone deserves a ballon d'or. I already stated here my sincere opinion that he has become the most overrated in the history of the game. 4/5 of the last BD and the last 2 were based on performances like yesterday and his shining personality (his completeness as a human Being, leader, great mentality demanding for every ball and every fk etc). Suddenly, a creative player as Neymar has become a 'huge failure' in games like yesterday and should Learn real football from CR7, greatest european player ever according to many out there.
I only meant in the past two games. I thought Dembele was the more impressive against Arsenal and Juventus, but it's a very close one obviously. I don't know anyone, me included, who considers Dembele the better player. Having said that, one can argue that Dembele is the more important player to Spurs style.
Only reason why Eriksen is not talked more about is because fans are clueless about what is important in football. This tightly connects to the topic you guys talk about considering Ronaldo. People just don't care who runs the games, people care about who makes the last touch before balls get into back of the net. The fact people don't think Eriksen is better than Kane or Alli is simply not point to make as criticism towards Eriksen. He doesn't get hyped up because he plays in a role that gets no attention in general. That's not a reason to put him down as a player. it's flawed logic on every level of analysis. If you ever watch Tottenham game, you see how important Eriksen is to that team. He is a key figure who links Kane, Son, Alli with midfield. Very underrated indeed. That's why i made this post now because he clearly showed in last game how important he is to Tottenham. Watch him in recent games against Manchester, Arsenal,.. he brings energy to the game that's fabulous. Rakitić is not so "unmoving" because he has such role, that's completely false, he has never been a player who will continouly make difference with his runs. he does it ocassionaly and that usually ends up with dangerous situation. If he could do that more often (which Eriksen would with his work rate which is undeniably higher than Rakitić's), Barcelona would be flying towards treble. Coutinho got recognized as the best player in Liverpool because he is such type that gets recognized as the best. You are completely underestimating tactical side of the football. Eriksen is freakishly inteligent and he is showing that every single game. Just watch him play. Rakitić often, especially this season, loses possesion in a dangerous area.I don't like him in Barcelona at all. He doesn't fit in there. He never did nor will ever do. Btw, i don't think Alli is top 4 in this Tottenham side. Kane, Eriksen, Lloris and even Dembele are all better and more important imo. That's not what a regular, i-just-watch-stats football fan thinks. They are clueless.
It's like arguing whether a heart or a brain is more important to the human body. Both are essential. I really like someone mentioned Dembele because he deserves some recognition.
Would you say Paulinho can be mentioned in the same sense as Ineista, Xavi, Kroos, modrić? Of course no, but you clearly see how Valverde takes the best out of him. It's about fitting in the squad and not about being the best of the best. Eriksen has qualities that this Barcelona would love to have.
i actually agree with you on many points. actually, it would be false on my part to say that eriksen can`t play on a real madrid or barcelona because english media rates kane and deli alli as a better player. as a matter of fact, i find it unbelievable that the media is so readily counting kane above lewandowski, suarez, and neymar when in comparing kane`s game to those 3 players, they are above kane as an all round player. and frankly, it`s no comparison. as a matter of fact, i rate salah as a clearly better player than kane. my evaluation of eriksen is false, because i am evaluating eriksen based on bad evaluations of the english media. in honesty, i never rated kane and delli alli on a level above eriksen, although i did use it in my arguments to discredit him as a barcelona caliber player. eriksen is just as important as kane and no less, especially when you consider kane doesn`t have an all round game like players such as messi and neymar, who can score and just as easily pick the ball up from midfield and make things happen. kane has not shown or proven that. therefore, eriksen deserves his credit. although i still disagree with you that eriksen is a barcelona player, you have clearly proved my argument to be invalid. and as soon as i get time, i will come with a better argument.