What if Liverpool loses? No Spurs player will win the Ballon for sure ofc. Messi would win the Ballon if Spurs win CL.
I've just realised LM10 won it last year! Thread question still open? Only joking, I know what was intended when BocaFan started the thread, although I'm sure a bookmaker would have tried to avoid paying out on Modric if he could get away with not honouring a bet on 'next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't LM10 or CR7'!
They haven’t, but this is like Messi’s final chance to prove it. Also WC and CL debacle could motivate him further to win it.
Motivation can only take you so far I dont know what youve seen or havent but argentinas current crop of players that have come through are a complete joke If he couldnt raise the level of his team when it mattered with players as prime di maria(2014) Prime higuain,prime mascherano etc What will he do with a bunch of unknowns who have no real pedigree,limited to no tournament experience? Brazil(on home soil)with their main players nearing or in their prime have no excuse except to win Tbh they are the only genuine contenders
There is a growing argument if liverpool win the CL that VVD being the best player on a title winning team could(not saying should)win. He will be only the second defender to do so and his case is arguably stronger than the first(cannavaro 06) even so its not open and shut(there is a international tournament in the summer still to be played) Its a long shot but if neymar could have a performance in the copa as R9 1997 and a strong start to 19/20 he is right in the mix But it definitely is a long shot barring any major shocks messi should be a comfortable winner(perhaps VVD can win the uefa best player in europe to level it out) It is worth mentioning the PL is now incontrovertibly the best league in europe VVDs achievements in the best league should carry more weight then if he did it in bygone years Im not a fan of the guy if im being honest neither do i particularly like liverpool if im being even more perfectly honest However I predict that the recent CL exit of barcelona will come back to haunt messi come voting time Rightly or wrongly he will shoulder the lionshare of the responsibilty
BREAKING: Antoine Griezmann has confirmed he is leaving Atletico Madrid. Barcelona are expected to trigger his £125m release clause to sign him. 📝✅ Messi, ✅ Suarez, ✅ Griezmann 🔥 pic.twitter.com/Hb66guMU5l— talkSPORT (@talkSPORT) May 14, 2019
1966 - Kylian Mbappé 🇫🇷 est désormais le 1er joueur français à inscrire au moins 32 buts sur une saison en Ligue 1 depuis Philippe Gondet avec Nantes en 1965/66 (36). Update. https://t.co/8BUbTJft5P— OptaJean (@OptaJean) May 18, 2019 @ko242 Have you reconsidered your earlier position on this kid wonder. Its easy to be snobbish about his achievements in ligue 1 but you should maybe reconsider after his historic season At 20 years old he has more league goals in a single season than all but one of ibrahimovics campaigns for PSG(2015/16 who was more of a poacher here) If he carries on along this trajectory at 23-26 years old he will be an even more devastating version of henry(with more chances courtesy of his superteam edge to increase his CL record and maybe gain a top scorer award at the upcoming Euros championships) He is a top 20 all timer in the making if he fulfils his potential As has been aluded to already and if we remove the nostalgic goggles his style/technique doesnt look necessarily worse than eusebio
I've said it before, but I think it would be a damn shame if he, like Henry, end up spending most of his career at a team that can't win the UCL, which PSG doens't look like they're capable of.
Top 20 all timer based on what? Is he really that much more impressive than the likes of Sane, Dembele, Vinicius, Rodrygo, Sancho, etc? I can see that only if he becomes a clinical finisher which is something i dont think you can tell if its going to happen. Scoring 50 goals per season in competitive leagues is his only way to achieve that. He has an eye for goal, now he needs ruthlessness. He is on a good path but you cant just assume growth because he is young. Currently he isnt top 20 in the world. He will peak early although he has football inteligence that will allow him to play on the impressive level in 30s.
You must be living in a parallel universe if you genuinely believe this If mbappe was leading the line for FC Barcelona you would've already been anointing him as the second coming of Christ Mbappe at 20 years old is already of the same level as prime Gareth bale and prime alexis sanchez Right now the only way is up for him and his potential ceiling particularly as a goalscorer is sky high Those players you mentioned (sancho,sane,dembele etc)may or may not look better on the eye but in terms of end product they aren't even in the same ball park In fact not even close
I’d agree.. MBappe looks to be special player to me .. shame he went to PSG though .. He reminds me of a young (Brazilian) Ronaldo ..
Messi, ronaldo, neymar, hazard, de bruyne, van dijk, oblak, ter stegen, modric, aguero, salah, bernardo silva, alisson, kimmich, griezmann,.. Thats 15 players i would choose over him in this moment and there are numerous players arguably on the same level that would be a close call. You talk like top20 of all time is a walk in a park. Lets put it this way: Is he currently a better player than Neymar? He is clearly inferior and not by a slight amount. Visible everytime they play big games together. I am pretty sure you wouldnt put neymar even in top 50 conversation so Mbappe has a long way to achieve top 20 level, which is idk, Eusebio, Gerd Muller level, would you agree or give your examples? That means he has to improve by a lot, let me ask you then, where does he improve his game from here? Will he get faster? Stronger, better dribbler, passer, vision, scoring? You cant assume growth just because he is young. Growth has to come from somewhere. Tell me where he will improve to that top20 level or is he already top 20 of all time? He definitely didnt look like one vs United this season and vs Real season before. Turn off sound for this video. I would choose rooney 20 over mbappe 20 and yet where is rooney on that all time list? Nowhere, because rooney reached his limitations very early on, and there are certain players that peak early. 20 year old Mbappe doesnt have as much room for improvment as 20 year old someone else. Age is just a number. As i said he can only get there by scoring ridiculous amount of goals like ronaldo and messi do, and he is on the right track but will he? French league is not a proof of anything especially if you play in the most dominant team in the history of any league ever. Ibrahimovic didnt have this kind of PSG nor is he some standard that players should live up to. He has been washed up for a very long time and completely failed in epl coming from that 30+ season in French Let me ask you, how many goals would Mbappe get this season if he played for either City or Liverpool? I wouldnt give him more than 20 for sure. Dribbling wise he will never be as good as both ronaldos, messi,.. even dembele. Mbappes body strucutre is long looking, not suitable for close control. He doesnt have tiny steps. He can be a good trickster but his feet are nowhere near as fast as cristianos because again he is built that way. At the best Mbappe will be a better dribbling version of Bale. Perpahs phenomenal 1v1 player when he has time and space but there seems to be his limit. He wont reach close control of Sane, Salah, Dembele, Bernardo Creativity and passing wise he is head and shoulders above his peers but again how do you tell if a 20 year old will get better in that segment of the game? History doesnt show implicity growth among young players in this segment. Dembele in my opinion has a bigger ceilling, has much more room for relatively EASY improvment, he is simply more talented in my opinion. He makes stupid mistakes that can be avoided. Mbappe doesnt have a single segment in his game where you can say: oh he will easily improve that. If he is going to be a top20 all timer it's because he will go from being great at xy (scoring, for example) to a historical level.
Probably. Man i would even choose eriksen, thaigo, kroos, de jong over him but i might be a bit biased toward midfielders
I thought Mbappe was a special player as (at the time) I probably overrated him on the basis of his spectacular World Cup 2018, but overall, I get the feeling that Mbappe will either implode spectacularly or improve spectacularly... I think there is no middle ground with Mbappe, he will either be as great as some fans think he will be, or he will be another Wayne Rooney type who finds his limits early on, and stops his growth early on, etc. As you allude to, there are certain skills that barely (if at all) improve with age, for example dribbling ability, ball retention ability, and passing ability, tend to be permanently innate abilities that players are born with or without, and even for the players born with said abilities, age tends to offer slight tiny improvements at the best of times. See for example if you notice any great improvements in terms of Iniesta Euro 2008, versus Iniesta World Cup 2010, versus Iniesta Euro 2012... it's virtually the same identical player. On the other hand, I'd argue that shooting ability can greatly improve with age, Cristiano Ronaldo's shooting improved greatly in his mid 20s, as did Messi's in his early 20s, as did Messi's free kick ability in his late 20s or early 30s, as did Thierry Henry in 2002 when he was already 24 years old (he was nowhere near as good at scoring when he was 21 years old, for example), as did Mohamed Salah at 25 years of age (nobody could see this coming, simply because goal scoring ability is probably overrated and has a lot to do with coaching, with tactics, and so on), etc. If goal scoring ability was as important and as difficult as some fans argue, then we wouldn't be seeing so many players who become 2 times better at scoring goals from one year to the next year, staying at that level for periods of 4 years or longer, etc. I mean, you never see players like Wayne Rooney suddenly becoming as technical as Isco, but you do see players like Thierry Henry who in 2002 - at 24 years of age; this is not a wonder kid - became a much better goal scorer and he stayed at that same level goal-scoring-wise ever since. Similarly, Cristiano Ronaldo at 23 years of age scored a lot of goals, but then at 24 years of age his goal scoring form declined more or less as spectacularly as it had peaked the previous season, and it was at 25 years of age that Ronaldo became a great goal scorer and stayed at that level for the next 8 years; albeit in my opinion, abundantly and copiously assisted by the greatest stat-padding platform of all time, Real Madrid 2009 - 2018, unlike anything I've witnessed before it or after it in terms of serving as a stat-padding platform for one particular player. At any rate, goal scoring form can go up or down dramatically depending on the team tactics, team edge relative to the rest of the league, team edge relative to the teammates (read: stat-padding platforms such as Real Madrid 2009 - 2018), confidence level as a result of physical maturity and/or positional maturity (read: Thierry Henry never went back to his old scoring ratio, after he knew that he had the ability - physical or positional or both equally - to score at that level), etc. But again, you never see players like Gareth Bale suddenly become as skillful, as tiny step-ish, as technicians such as Isco, Valderrama, Bernardo, Iniesta, and so on, all of whom consistently display a seemingly innate micro-steps physical ability in terms of ability on the ball.
I wouldnt say finishing is overrated but rather misunderstood. This is what i have to add to Mbappe story. Messi 2008 and Messi 2009 are two completely different players when it comes to end product (just one of mamy dramatic increases as leadleader says), in Messis case its easy to understand
A multitude of mistakes in a small paragraph Ronaldo wasn't 23 when he went on his most prolific goalscoring streak for United He was 22(23rd birthday on February almost 3/4 through the season) Wasn't 25 when he retained his goalscoring touch he was 24 Ronaldo had a 1gpg ratio at the start of 2009/10 His drop in form wasn't nearly as spectacular or for anywhere near as you claim( 5 months at best of below par performances in 8 years) The greatest measure of a players worth and talent is how he is viewed by his peers Did ronaldo have a greater competitor than Lionel Messi? Is Lionel Messi a compromised analyst? From yesterday (and not the first time he's said it this year) "Of course I miss Ronaldo, he made Real Madrid stronger, I said that they were going to feel the exit of Cristiano, as it would have happened to any team. They got mad in Madrid when I said it but it’s the truth. It's a reality, he scored 50 goals per season for them and it was the key factor in their success. The whole league misses him now. https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro....ission-got-mad-madrid-said-truth-9772257/amp/ Everyone in Spain probably misses cristiano except for goalkeepers and leadleader
I think Mbappe will improve in his scoring. With Cavani out injured and him playing centrally, he already showed that improvement (though I still prefer him out wide). His passing has been improving too (watch his match vs Iceland earlier this year). I think his dribbling reached it's ceiling last year and it's clear he has technical deficiencies overall. I can't see him being a master passer, or dribbler or being of much use in the tight quarters, but what he has is unbelievable physical qualities, high footballing IQ and that desire to always get on the end of things. All the things I see him doing bad are due to his technical level which limits him quite a bit. At 20 he is probably close to his physical peak, so in essence we are looking at the finished article IMO with incremental increases in the next two years or so then getting to the point where he performs at his optimum for a whole season, then another one, then another one etc. As for him not being top 20, I find it laughable. He is the 2nd highest scorer in all of Europe, at 20! He has disappointed in his last 2 CL exits, but again he has some good performances vs good teams already in his catalogue (Man City, Bayern, Juve) and goals against some other top sides like Liverpool even if the overall performance wasn't quite there. WC goals vs Argentina and Croatia (final). Sane, Dembele and Salah are hardly close control specialists IMO, not in the mould of Hazard and Bernardo anyway. They have better technique than Mbappe though, that's for sure. The players I feel comfortable saying are better than him currently are: Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Hazard, KDB. After that you have players who have better technique, just like you have players with better technique than Eusebio, Gerd Muller, Lothar Matthaus (players considered to be among the twenty or thirty greatest), but that doesn't always translate to being the overall better player.
Your obsession with me is starting to become annoying, and not so much because of your unwarranted attacks on me, but rather far more because your criticism is either blatantly wrong or ridiculously exaggerated virtually every single time. Ronaldo was 23 in February 5, which means that he was 23 almost for the whole duration of February, March, April, and 2 games in May... we are talking about 3 months plus 2 dates in May. Ronaldo was 23 for the whole duration of the Champions League KO Stage. Moreover, Ronaldo was 22 for 4 games in August, September, October, November, December; 4 months plus a couple of days. The important thing that I'd like you to understand here is... in terms of Premier League goals, Ronaldo scored zero goals in August, 1 goal in September, 2 goals in October, 3 goals in November, 7 goals in December, 6 goals in January; 19 Premier League goals that he scored at 22 years of age, which means that Ronaldo scored the other 12 goals at 23 years of age. Moreover, in terms of Champions League goals, Ronaldo scored 5 goals at 22 years of age, and another 3 goals at 23 years of age. At any rate, it is a mistake to say that Ronaldo was 22 when he was in fact 23 years old when he scored 12 out of 31 Premier League goals... And similarly, it is also a mistake to say that Ronaldo was 23 when he was in fact 22 years old when he scored 19 out of 31 Premier League goals. My honest mistake was to assume that the Premier League and La Liga have the same calendar year; La Liga starts by the end of August, which means that almost the whole of May is played, in which case Ronaldo would've been 23 years old in February, March, April, and May, in which case he would've scored more than 50% of his Premier League goals at 23 years of age. That was my honest mistake; I think you are grossly exaggerating how big my mistake was. Not to mention that the whole point is that Ronaldo was nothing special in terms of scoring goals at any point in his previous Premier League campaigns, 2003/04, 2004/05, 2005/06, and 2006/07, that's a lot of campaigns before Ronaldo hit the heights of 2007/08, and even here, Ronaldo goes down again immediately in 2008/09... Cristiano Ronaldo is not Ronaldo Nazario, the first phenomenal Ronaldo was a prolific scorer in his first season in La Liga (20 years old) and in his first season in the Serie A (21 years old), before his bad knees stopped him. Cristiano Ronaldo at 20 years of age, 21 years of age, was nowhere near that prolific. Ronaldo at 23 years of age... Premier League 2007-08 / 9 open play goals + 2 penalty kicks + 1 free kick in 13 games / prolific. Premier League 2008-09 / 7 open play goals + 2 penalty kicks + 2 free kicks in 23 games / not prolific, not to mention that 2 of his open play goals came in an easy 5-0 blow out win (Ronaldo scored the 4-0 goal and the 5-0 goal, in true stat-padding fashion), and 1 open play goal in a 4-0 blow out win, and 2 free kicks in a 5-0 blow out win / only 5 open play goals that weren't scored in easy blow out wins, and he was playing for the best club in England... a notable if not spectacular decline in terms of goal scoring form compared to his previous season. Ronaldo at 24 years of age... Premier League 2008-09 / 2 open play goals + 2 penalty kick + 3 free kicks in 15 games / not prolific at all, the man scored 2 open play goals in 15 games, playing for the best club in England... Again not prolific by any stretch of the imagination, and no amount of penalty kicks plus free kicks can hide such a glaring lack of goal scoring form. La Liga 2009-10 / 4 open play goals + 1 penalty kick in his first 5 games / 8 open play goals + 1 penalty kick in the other 12 games / 12 open play goals + 2 penalty kicks in 17 games / prolific, but playing in a club and a league where Gonzalo Higuain was even more prolific in terms of open play goals. Ronaldo at 25 years of age... La Liga 2009-10 / 11 open play goals + 3 penalty kick + 3 free kicks in 17 games.
Doubling down when you are blatantly wrong sprinkled with more inaccurate stats and voodoo( and no I specifically don't give you the benefit of the doubt when ronaldo is the player in question) Why? If you have the time to calculate his open play goals If you have the time to write 50,000 word tirades attempting to demystify 1 person than the least you can do is get a flipping birth date right Dumb and dumber Cristiano at 21 is definitely not R9 at 21 One was a striker and the other a winger(should we compare assists?) Im actually bored with you now Bye