Next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't CR7 or LM10 (and when)?

Completely missed the point. Going off topic. The point is kobe was playing in the nba out of high school and many people were confident he would be better than Jordan.

There are a lot of people who think CR7 is better than Messi, should we take that seriously as well???
The fact is there is a large consensus that Michael is better than Kobe and arguably the greatest player in Basketball. And there are people who say CR7 played in a tougher league than Messi and played in more leagues than Messi. Similar argument people are aupoosedly using to say Kobe is better than Michael. Which is probably not true considering MJ spent the greater part of his years playing under much more physical rules than Kobe did. Detroit pistons obviously being on the extreme end

 

I’m sorry to say but you can’t guarantee any of what you’ve just said(it’s speculation at best)

This so called unbreakable and domineering Chelsea side couldn’t even score a single goal against 5th place PL side Liverpool and consistently failed to make CL finals with mourinho in charge

How are so convinced that a team with the best midfield in the world and greatest goal scorer of all time wouldn’t annihilate this team

 

12 - @FCBarcelona’s Lionel Messi attempted 12 shots against Valladolid, the most by a player in a game in Europe’s top five leagues this season. Tireless. pic.twitter.com/yEF3pdvSe0

— OptaJose (@OptaJose) February 16, 2019

 

i quoted the specific part, never said you said it

I am pretty sure one of the reasons why Neymar aged well as a footballer is the influence by Messi. Not joining Barca would result in completely different player, maybe not half as good. It's speculative obviously, but makes sense

Felix? Isnt he like not similar at all to them?

Try rather.. Mbappe, Dembele, Sancho, Vinicius, Rodrygo, Hudson Odoi, Asensio, Brahim,... you get the point. Even deciding 4 most promising names is tough

I would disagree! He was novelty with this ok goal:


That's about it. (Missed 3 big chances!)

 

it's no secret he shots a lot

 

Stop cherry picking because I clearly posted Messi’s performance against Chelsea as well.
His potential was already measured when he was the standout performer in U-20 WC, his remarkable performance against defensively solid Chelsea and that hat trick against Real. Also, that Maradona-esque solo goal he scored against Getafe. That same Getafe team beat Barca in 2nd leg of Copa and qualified.

 

That same 5th placed Liverpool won the CL against pretty dominant AC Milan. That Liverpool team was tactically astute and won the CL due to
Benitez’s brilliance.

 

2nd most in Europe top 5 leagues, in fact.

 

this is revisionism at its worst
Milan dominated them completely as was expected particularly in the first half
Liverpool came back into the game through half chances and a penalty(what Benitez brilliance)
Milan went into first gear after the first half and through their own undoing lost that match
I don’t want to go off discussing a series of tangents
So let’s bring it back

Mbappe does not need to follow the career projection of Messi to be a great player
It is known that Messi demonstrated a much higher level when he was 19 years old( occasionally I might add)
Messi was not the consistent animal that he later became under Pep so let’s not act as if he was churning out getafe performances every weekend or something

My only issue is out of all the performances you could’ve potentially picked you went for one in a friendly exhibition essentially a non competitive fixture with a plastic trophy at the end of it
A young Messi does have a catalogue of impressive performances pre 2009 but it is intellectually dishonest of you to insist on presenting this performance as something above and beyond mbappes capabillities

 

I don't buy it in the way you're putting it, sorry. Neymar was predestined since a very early age to be a world-class player, and more or less time he would end up adapting to the roles and requirements of the top European Leagues. I could even say that if he had gone to another competitive club (like Atletico de Madrid or Juventus) he would have become a more responsible, direct and more complete player through the pure necessity of becoming that player.

Felix is a forward and he seems to have a lot of potential for the videos and compilations I've seen so far.

 

Hate to say this, but Real Madrid is all set in the future. They signed Rodrygo, Vinicius and Brahim Diaz.

 

Except Messi’s capabilities is beyond Mbappe’s. You’re such a biased Ronaldo fanboy who in fact recently posted bunch of teenage CR7 videos to suggest that he was superior to Mbappe as a teenager. But when it comes to Messi, you believe Mbappe isn’t inferior? Also GOAT tier players are in fact technically elite which Mbappe isn’t. At best he is a generational talent.

 

Are you retarded mate
Do I literally have to type in large bold letters for you to comprehend what is being said
Messi was better than mbappe period(in everything bar finishing and the same goes for CR aswell in case you feel I’m being biased)

Having said this The difference at that age(17-20) isn’t as great you and other Barca fan girls(boys?)incessantly claim
Messi did not take the next step where he separated himself from his peers till 2009
He was 21 years old then

So even though Messi demonstrated he had a higher ceiling from 17-20 years it is A huge exaggeration to claim he was on a complete different level (all things considered including consistency,end product,durability etc)
it is a fact as tropiero for once correctly pointed out that CR,Messi,Rooney And I’d even add cesc Fabregas to that list were considered the best under 21 year old players pre 2006(all at roughly the same level)

 

Are you a dud? I never stated that Mbappe needs to be on Messi’s level in order to be a great player. There’s a huge difference between GOAT tier players and great players. I never implied that Mbappe isn’t a great player, but he never showed that GOAT tier potential or top 10 player of all time potential like many football fans hyped him to be. He’s already 20 and let’s see what he’s capable of once he reach 21 years. Neymar showed greater potential than Mbappe initially and ********ed up big time. I think players like Vinicius and Dembele could be better than Mbappe if they are great finishers.

 

This kinda made me gag. Anyways Mbappe for sure will eventually turn out to be poacher type of player.

 

Its like that for last 9 years or so.. so?
Also always top 10 (often top 5) in terms of possesions lost, so?

What are you implying? Why are you pointing it out?
Also @PuckVanHeel

 

Neymar completely revolutionized his style of play in Barca mirroring Messi

He was more of a classical winger coming to Barcelona, now he drops deep, drifts to centre without the ball, approaches one twos in similar fashions, goes for the same diagonal passes Messi does, etc.. Neymar himself said that he looked up to Messi.
You are underestimating the power of mentors and authority. Its pretty natural human behaviour to copy and mirror people, parents we hold on a higher status. Thats why you, I, everyone develop a lot of similar habits like our fathers (assuming you had lived with him)..

Thats science. The only question is how big an effect it had. Thats debateable

 

I agree but I think he’s suggesting you aren’t crediting Neymar quite enough for the strides he has taken to improve his own game
To some extent you Are crediting everything he’s done to Lionel Messi

Are we going to start saying things like Ronaldinho mentored Messi which explain why he became the player he is
Or jay jay ochocha mentored Ronaldinho like where will it end

There is a quote of Neymar(in fact quite a few) where he calls Messi his idol(and the same for Cristiano)
Having an idol doesn’t necessitate you want to act or perform exactly as they do.it could just mean he wants to be put on the same pedestal as them or be as successful
It is plain to see particularly in PSG
That he has his own playing style
(this seasons he is more of a classic 10 but last he was operating more in a hybrid winger/playmaker a role I haven’t seen Messi function in)

A lot of footballers have idols that they look up
For example Ibrahimovic looked up to R9
And R9 in turn idolised zico
we can say that none of these players mirrored each other’s styles(at least not so obviously)

there is of course a possibility after training with him for so long Neymar subconsciously adopted some elements of Messi’s game
However I very much doubt he intentionally mirrored his game on Messi because if he did the end result isn’t all that great(they are players with completely different styles)

 

There is no way a player like Neymar is thriving at a defensive club with so much structure at Atletico Madrid. I even find juventus to not have enough flair like Madrid and Barca to best supplement his style of play. PSG is probably the next best choice

 

I disagree. Playing on barcelona is the most difficult team to play on. Its no wander players that look like stars on other teams (luis suarez, dembele, coutinho, turan etc.) Have looked out of place a number of times. The demands to play at that level are extremely high. This is a team in which the coach was under fire for winning a league, copa del Rey in an almost undefeated season. The only other team with such high standards in recent years is real Madrid

 

I definitely dont want to say that. Its not like i think Messi is a good mentor at all he is an awful one. You should definitely not try to mirror Messi. Messis playing style makes sense only if he is the only one doing it. And yes, Ronaldinho definitely shaped him, but more so Guardiola with his coaching. He wouldnt age so well without that influence.

Neymar was an extraordinary player i am just doubtful because considering Neymars mentality, if he joined a team in which he was vastly superior to his teammates, his development could have taken a bad turn. Do you think Neymar has improved the slightest since joining PSG? I dont. Perhapse he is even worse becaus eplaying against weaker opponents so often in French league could develop some bad habits. Mentoring is very underrated and undertalked subject in football.

Hybrid of that role doesnt remind you of Messi? Really?
Well thats the thing, since when was Neymar ever playmaker type of player? Since learning under Messi.
Its not matter of IF he mirrored him, its unquestionable, we know that from evolutionary biology, its just matter to which extent.

Those are different types of relationships. Ibra is not going to mirror R9 because they are completely differently build and mirroring is definitely amplified if you see the guy ever single day for 4 years.

 

Joao Felix is my cousin lol Dead-serious. Spoke about it already in the Portuguese forums, was with his grandparents recently at their house.

Just thought I’d brag real quick. Even if I haven’t seen him in over a decade.

Been pretty cool nonetheless seeing his development.

 

Your lack of foresight cost you a lucrative opportunity to be his agent then

 

Lol, that is pretty cool. Was he always mòre talented than others or did he just all of a sudden created a gap that none if his peers could follow?

Modrić, for example, wasnt a stand out kid in his teens. Many clubs rejected him early on. He was pretty lucky to be given a chance by Dinamo..

In comparison, there is Eduard Husinec he actually went into the same elementary school as i did. He was sort of better than anyone else in the school as a teen and he was given all sorts of trials in Madrid, London and he never made it.

Its interesting to see that nothing is written in the stones early on. Your development can go in all sorta of directions