Nobody said he was completely inept at scoring them but a low proportion of his goals came from headers Van Basten and Romario would have a clear edge on R9 in this department As would arguably Luis Suarez
Well, you used to word mediocre. Sounds like not to far from inept. While Messi only relatively weak close to Pelé. In that video R9 scored 46 header goals. There is a good possibility that's his whole list of headed goals. That's 11.1%. Curious to see other players stats. CR7 is at around 17%. Messi has scored 24 in his career so far out of 632. That's 3.8%. So I don't see how you seem to rate R9 < Messi just by the way you described them. Now granted, Messi's position for most of his career and Barca's game is not predicated on crossing. R9 was a striker for most of his career specially after his operations. But R9's teams weren't looking for him to head the ball either. R9 admittedly never liked heading the ball.
46 headers I will have to review that total because it doesn’t seem like a right number I remember reviewing all his goals for European clubs Madrid/Barcelona/inter and it never even reached 20 header goals so these added goals scored in lesser leagues seem a bit suspicious to me Even on the footballs greatest documentary series I remember zico saying R9 was weak in the air
It includes his PSV / Cruzeiro / Corinthians / Brazil goals. Just go over the video. It didn't help that he became fat, so leaping wasn't a thing for him. But you can see he has a few very good headers with very good technique in there.
Congratulations to Messi for scoring 2 FK goals in a single match Still away to go to match CR7 who scored 2 direct FKs in a single match on 3 occasions (once in England And twice in Spain) Even so mihajlovic vs Sampdoria still remains the benchmark
That was Messi's 43rd and 44th FK goals. He is 9 away from CR7. 3 in one game is pretty insane. Rivaldo once scored one over the wall and another one under from almost the same position.
It seems a lot of his headers came from great positional sense rather then great heading technique A lot of the time he is unmarked in in the 6 yard box with only the GK to beat I never saw any diving headers a la Van Basten/CR7/Pele or even headers where he is being tightly marked and still manages to put jump defenders Nevertheless he was obviously not bad and it’s understandable why I may of missed quite a few of his headers because they were scored for Cruzeiro It also doesn’t help that the widely held perception in Europe during his playing career was that heading wasn’t his strong point Even you alluded to this when you said R9 didn’t like to score them https://www.planetfootball.com/nost...uide-to-ronaldo-fan-sites-of-the-early-2000s/
He is 16 FK goals away from Cristiano Ronaldo Considering ronaldos piss poor ratio from set pieces over the past 4-5 years I still wouldn’t wager against Messi equalling his record It’s crazy because in 2012 this was a quality of ronaldo that everyone agreed Messi couldn’t touch Tables have turned now
Well, I am pulling my info from here. https://michelacosta.com/en/messi-vs-cristiano-goals-free-kicks-hat-tricks/ Seems very detailed site to be wrong about it. In those 60 it includes 2 indirect FKs from inside the box. I'd place that in a different category. I am guessing the other 5 are from club friendlies. Which are not typically counted nowadays. I recognized 2 in there. Just a guess.
That source is known for getting Messi’s statistics correct but never ronaldos Micheal Costa is a known Portuguese hater as are most Brazilians I have encountered on this forum In his propaganda piece below he opens by saying Cristiano Ronaldo is undoubtably one of the best players in football history Then he proceeds to completely misconstrue data to the point that the only inference one can draw is that ronaldo cannot be one of the best players of all time https://michelacosta.com/en/10-myths-legends-cristiano-ronaldo/ It is like leadleader who will insist that he never denies ronaldo is an all timer Yet at one point or another he has claimed each and everyone of ronaldos prime seasons are overrated Which begs the question how can a player who so many “deficiencies “ even warrant a discussion for all time status It is completely crazy
Ronaldo de Lima: “We are different in terms of our position on the field and our way of interpreting the game, even if Cristiano does now play in a more central position," Ronaldo told La Gazzetta dello Sport. "He has a different way of approaching the goal with respect to how I did, even if our goal was the same. "I think we are maybe equal in our desire to score goals but it is no coincidence that Cristiano has reached 33 years of age in this kind of form. "There are so few players who take care of their body like he does and still has so much desire to improve. I’m not saying the way we approach training is completely opposite but it is certainly different. "I trained because I had to, he does it because he loves it." We are nine years apart but the years in which we played are very different," explained the former Brazil international. "I don't want to say that the time I played in was more difficult but we faced different situations with different teams. "In terms of the Ballon d'Or, we the players made it clear and everyone knows it, it is a prize that is determined by the results. In the World Cup, Luka Modric and Croatia had a better tournament than Portugal and Cristiano did." https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2018/12/07/5c0aa36dca4741fc368b458b.html
Most goals in league games from free-kicks in the past 4 years: 19: Messi 18: Juventus 14: Lyon, Real Madrid, Roma 13: Bayern 12: Sampdoria, Monaco, PSG 11 Chelsea, Liverpool, Milan It's pointless comparing Messi to players again. We'll start comparing him to clubs. Out of this world.
This is not surprising (him and Ronaldo have more CL goals than all but nine clubs), but as usual this is a highly misleading way to look at it. What we should look at for this is free kick conversion rate. Something like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/8my4fb/oc_top_10_free_kick_conversion_rates_in_top/ If you have many more attempts (and with Ronaldo going 50+ consecutive free kick attempts without scoring), then yes, you get that number. CL goals in the 2010s: Ronaldo 100-92 Manchester United— Duncan Alexander (@oilysailor) November 7, 2018
But don't forget. Pele was just one part of a great whole. I would love to see Pele 70 lift an Argentina WC14 and 18 the way he played in 70. Simply too passive. Pele not running at defenders and being the focal point of the attack isn't going to do shit when you play for Argentina WC14 or 18. Of course, in terms of pure football, Pele 70 was ideal. His decision making and technique was on point. But so was everybody else's on the team. What the hell has Aguero or Higuain ever done at a WC. And don't even get me started on their weak ass midfield and defense. Only Mascherano gets a mention. Everyone else is unforgettable pretty much. Although I think the keeper hasn't been decent
Good question. But of course I watched all games. Name one player on Brazil who was not a top performer in that WC??? Every damn position was top notch!!! Personally, I don't even think Tostao was as great as everyone made him out to be. But everyone does. So I will accept that my judgement is flawed. A Passive Pele in 70 is not enough to lift a modern day Argentina to WC victory.
I'll tell you this, I've heard more people on this forum praise Jairzinho in 70 as better than Pele 70. Don't forget, when we see journalists and other so called football experts, a name like Pele will get thrown out there because of his name. I mean even Pele himself says he won 3 WCs as if he did much of anything in 62. He was as good as useless. Also, when I make these statements, these are first and foremost my opinion. Messi no doubt deserved in WC14. No doubt! But from what I saw from Eusebio 66, Garrincha 62, and Jairzinho 70 were extremely impactful. Because Jairzinho played for such a class team, I wouldn't compare it with Messi. But from what I personally saw from Garrincha 62, Eusebio 66, and Kempes 78, I put those as the best individual performances I've ever seen. Dare I say it, I've only seen 2 games of Brazil from the WC58 and Didi was the best player supposedly. From what I saw in 62, the way Didi performed his 58 WC performance is probably one of the best of all time. You can even see his authority over other players on freekicks in WC58. It's hard to judge Messi's just because he is playing with so many shit players. At the same token Messi in WC was coming off his worst season, 13-14. Had it been WC 12, that would be interesting!!!! But Messi didn't play that great in the Semi's and final. He played pretty good in the QF. So intend to agree with @carlito86 in saying Pele's 70 is better than Messi 14.
Is it me or do you guys feel 18/19 Ronaldo is a better dribbler than his previous 16/17 & 17/18 versions?
I find it amazing that you could appreciate the subtleties of And elusiveness of a player like iniesta but not tostao I fell in love with his style of play when I first watched the BBC documentary “boys from Brazil” I must only been 10 at the time. Tostao was Peles foil guy,drawing defenders away from him,creating chances some that he scored and some he missed Remember it was him who laid down that beautifully weighted through ball pass for Peles feint miss against Uruguay At 4:12 He assisted Pelés goal vs Romania He did all the work for jairzinhos goal vs England with a dribble on bobby Moore and of course Pele got credited for a simple 2-3 yard sideway pass to Jairzinho and the guy who Really does the work gets no credit He directly assisted clodoaldo in the SF with some great visionary play and in the 2nd half assisted jairzinho Tostao to Pele in 70 was what prime iniesta was to Messi for Barcelona except that tostao was a more productive player So out of all people he is the kind of player you should appreciate most. Between 67-69 I believe there is a school of thought that tostao was the best player in Brazil especially with “the king” retiring from The NT and only coming back shortly before the World Cup