[News]Goodbye Netherlands Antilles, Hello Curacao and Sint Maarten

Does the Netherlands pick up any significant players/prospects from the 3 islands that went to them?

 

nice. two more islands that each will have an equal vote to Mexico, and likely vote for jack warner.

 

I hope we get another Guillermo Cañedo, then Mexico wouldn't have so little voice in the confederation that exists thanks to Mexico's efforts to create it.

 

probably. however, Cañedo was responsible for both WCs being held in Mexico. He never would have agreed to drop out of the hosting race just so the U.S. could have the latin American vote without competition.

 

Thanks for the update.

But isn't Sint Maarten already a member association, but they are only eligible for CONCACAF tournaments (like Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guyana, and Saint-Martin)?

 

2 countries, one Island

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Martin

The French side is a department of France so not FIFA eligible

The "Dutch" side is now an Independent country. (They are still under the Dutch king).

 

A quick question, do CONCACAF only members have a vote on issues pertaining to World Cup Qualifying? Logically, you wouldn't think so but Jack Warner is involved so...

 

Yeah, I get that, but what I'm saying is that Sint Maarten is already a CONCACAF member (just not a FIFA eligible one). So, at this point, they is really only one NEW vote (Curacao).

And really, since Netherlands Antilles doesn't have a vote, it nets out no zero new votes.

CONCACAF before the NA breakup had 40 Members (35 FIFA Eligible), and now they'll have 40 Members (36 FIFA Eligible/4 CONCACAF only).

http://www.concacaf.com/page/NationalAssociations/0,,12813,00.html

Old CONCACAF: (FIFA Eligible/Ranked = 35).
NA (3). USA, Mexico, Canada
CA (7). Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Belize
SA/Car (2). Guyana, Suriname
Caribbean (23). Jamaica, T&T, Barbados, Cuba, Grenada, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, Haiti, St. Kitts & Nevis, Puerto Rico, Antigua & Barbuda, Dominica, Cayman Islands, Dominican Republic, Netherlands Antilles, Bermuda, British VI, St. Lucia, Turks & Caicos Islands, Bahamas, Aruba, US VI, Anguilla, Montserrat.

CONCACAF only: Martinique (Caribbean), Guadeloupe (Caribbean), Saint-Martin (Caribbean), Sint Maarten (Caribbean), French Guyana (SA/Car).

As you can see from the link or the list: Sint Maarten is already a CONCAF member association; yes, they'll be FIFA eligible, but I'm assuming they already vote for who runs CONCACAF. So they can already vote for Jack, if perhaps not Sepp.

And just swap out NA for Curacao, and we are still at 40, the change will be that 36 will be FIFA eligible, not 35.

Of course, aren't there other divisions on the island that could also join at this point (Bonaire + 2 more?).

 

Sint Maarten, Aruba and Curaçao are not independent countries. They are just labelled as countries under the constitution (as are England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales under the UK constitution). They are still dependent territories of the Netherlands. Therefore, Sint Maarten will NOT be eligible to join FIFA (or the UN, for that matter). Curaçao will be allowed FIFA membership on the basis that they are the successor to the Netherlands Antilles, which had secured membership well before the new admission rules came into play (and FIFA has already stated they can't be applied retrospectievly).

Saint Martin (the French side) is an overseas collectivity of France (not a department). It was formerly a dependency of Guadeloupe (which IS a department), but took on a separate status in 2007.

As far as the other islands are concerned, Bonaire is at a similar playing level to Aruba, but it remains to be seen whether they seek CONCACAF membership. I imagine they might be allowed to join, as otherwise their players will have no meaningful international outlet aside from friendly matches.

Sint Eustatius has just finished installing a full-sized football pitch on the island - they had played a few matches previously with the other SSS island (Saba), but these matches took place on a Cruyff court (42 x 28 metres). I think their small populations will severely restrict them, and I'm not sure they will attempt to join CONCACAF. Sint Eustatius is at present travelling to Sint Maarten regularly to play teams on that island. Sint Eustatius has also played matches with Sint Maarten (2-2), Saint Martin (3-3), Anguilla (won 2-0) and a few matches with Saint Kitts, but I'm not sure what the status of the opposition was in those games.

Apart from these islands, the only other 2 who could theoretically join CONCACAF are Saint Barthélemy and Saint Pierre & Miquelon (both of whom have played as national teams). But CONCACAF's FIFA membership will stay at 35 unless one of these islands gets independence.]

Given that CONCACAF has previously admitted Saint Martin (when it was part of Guadeloupe) and Sint Maarten (when it was part of the Netherlands Antilles), I can't see any political reason they would reject any of these islands' applications.

 

Thanks for the summary and excellent post.

We for FIFA purposes, we'll stay at 35. Cool.

 

Not exactly! The French side (Saint-Martin) is a COM (Collectivité d'Outre-Mer) different from overseas department like Guadeloupe. By cons Saint-Martin has a soft autonomy contrary to French Polynesia and New Caledonia who have a considerable autonomy.

Guadeloupe normally would have also this considerable autonomy but some politicians here have mystified a lot of my people. It seems an emissary from FIFA had recently made to Sint Maarten, unfortunatly not in Guadeloupe.

 

FIFA will not realistically admit any non-independent country. They are keen to avoid teams such as Zanzibar and Gibraltar gaining entry.

Entry to FIFA is actually quite complex for non-independent countries. First, they must gain permission from the FA of the country of which they are a dependency. Then they must usually be a member of their confederation for 2 years prior to gaining entry to FIFA. However, if we look at another confederation (CAF in Africa, for example) - we can see that the confederational rules are sometimes at odds with FIFA's, meaning it's impossible for any new members to join.

CAF STATUTES
ARTICLE 4
ADMISSION
1. The Confédération Africaine de Football is open to all African national football associations which are Members of FIFA and recognised by it as being the official bodies controlling football in their respective countries.

FIFA STATUTES
ARTICLE 10
2. Membership is only permitted if an Association has already been a
provisional member of a Confederation for at least two years.

So, basically, in Africa, under these rules, it is impossible for any new association to join CAF (and therefore FIFA) - even an independent country (NOTE: South Sudan is largely expected to vote for independence on 9th January, it will be interesting to see how they manage to get CAF membership under these rules). Associations can't be members of FIFA until they have been members of CAF, yet CAF wants them to be FIFA members before they join CAF. It's no wonder Zanzibar have been confused by the whole affair recently.

 

Yes, that was in 2004. Since then, FIFA has not shown any inclination to admit any more. It has clearly become harder for non-independent countries to gain membership. The case of Gibraltar's application to UEFA in 2006 has perhaps made them think twice - this went to the International Court of Arbitration for Sport, and their application was finally rejected largely due to pressure by Spain, who threatened to withdraw. UEFA members decided it was better to have Spain than Gibraltar.

Also, UEFA's decision was based on FIFA's ruling a few days before that "Gibraltar does not meet the statutory requirements to become a FIFA member", despite the fact that the Court of Arbitration in Sport had already ruled to the contrary, and despite the fact that it's written in FIFA's statutes that Gibraltar can become a member with the blessing of the FA of the territory on which it is dependent (in this case, the UK).

In the UEFA vote, only 3 of 52 members voted for Gibraltar's admission - what is significant though, is that these 3 were England, Scotland and Wales - 3 of the 4 UK (parent) associations (Gibraltar had once come under the FA (England)'s jurisdiction, so technically, only England's blessing should have been required). According to FIFA's rules - this is all that is required to become eligible for admission, but they clearly just ignored their own rules to deem Gibraltar unfit for entry. UEFA has subsequently changed THEIR entry requirements to make it impossible for the likes of Gibraltar to apply again. There is a huge element of unfairness in that entities such as the Faroe Islands have membership, while other territories of a similar status who didn't get in prior to the rule changes are now blocked from entry.

Just as another note - I was in contact with the FA of the Pacific island of Niue - they have been told by the OFC that they must become a member of FIFA before they become a member of the OFC. This is clearly impossible, as they need to become a member of the confederation first to be eligible for FIFA membership. So, the Niue FA is left in limbo - they are keen to develop football on the island, but are being denied access to OFC financial assistance which is being given to similar territories (Cook Islands, for example) - and I think this is the key - existing member countries are not willing to share the finances equally among lots of smaller members, so territories like Niue are being fobbed off with regulations that do not exist.

 

Maybe - but then why was Zanzibar not allowed in? They were CAF members for the required time (2 years), Tanzania (the parent body) supported their application. FIFA said it was because they were not independent.

"Fifa rejected Zanzibar's application for membership in March this year [2005] on the grounds that it is not an independent state recognised by the international community at present, nor is it likely to be in the foreseeable future."

So, by that token, Sint Maarten is also not an "independent state recognised by the international community", and so would be refused entry. If FIFA applies it rules consistently (Which we know it doesn't). So, yes, Sint Maarten might sneak in while others like Zanzibar, with more footballing pedigree, are left out. Besides, Sint Maarten has been inactive since 2000, so I'm not sure how much they'd want to join.

There's an interesting report here by journalist Steve Menary - he asked FIFA directly why they admitted New Caledonia but not Zanzibar - and was given quite fluffy answers.

http://www.playthegame.org/upload/Steve_Menary_-_When_Is_a_National_Team_not_a_National_Team.pdf

 

I think it would be useful for FIFA to draw up a list of territories that would be eligible for admission - then it would save the 'disallowed' territories the bother of meeting with FIFA and pleading for admission.

 

Yeah Curacao is the Antilles replacement as a FIFA member and Bonaire players are now Netherlands eligible. So I guess technically Bonaire is UEFA