New Stadium?

Discussion in 'Minnesota United FC' started by Goforthekill, Nov 27, 2011.

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  1. OpenCupFan

    OpenCupFan Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Everything you say here is an argument for pro/rel. Or better yet, arguments against the franchise system.
     
  2. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    not sure how that post has anything to do with arguing for pro/rel, or criticizing the franchise system. It just says that one party looking for a franchise contains shameless mediocrities who have at least partnered with people who know & care about soccer, and the other party looking for a franchise are a bunch of shameless sleazeballs who will use soccer for the benefit of their NFL team. Did you even read his post, or did you just see his name and throw out some snark?
     
  3. OpenCupFan

    OpenCupFan Member

    Jun 19, 2014
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    no i read it. criticisms from that post are that you have two competing parties with money attempting to get a franchise - only qualifications being exorbitant money. The soccer portion is ancillary.

    just b/c you accept the status quo in the franchise system doesn't make my point wrong. Everything he said in that post is a criticism of the franchise system you will see in other places, he just doesn't mention pro/rel.

    i'm not being snarky, i just put a name to his criticism. read it point by point if you want once more and then if you don't see it i will do the same for you if you wanna discuss it.
     
  4. davidrpaige

    davidrpaige Member

    May 17, 2008
    Washington, DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Pro/rel addresses none of these things. The Glazers are awful owners that use ManU like a personal trust account. Abramovich is a scumbag thug that owns his team like a temperamental 5 year-old with a new toy. You had Tan, thankfully for only a season, that had an ego the size of Cardiff and the tact of a deranged hobo. You have several teams owned by very bored oil tycoons holed up in Abu Dhabi searching for ways to diversify their money because the oil is going to dry up sooner then later. These are some examples of owners in pro/rel leagues. Tell me how they are different from the "evil" franchise owners?


    Quit trying to make European pro/rel as some kind of fantasy social justice device. You need to have money to join a franchise system and you need money to remain in the top flight of a pro/rel system. It all boils down to who has money and who doesn't, regardless of the ownership system. If you think otherwise, you are delusional.
     
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  5. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're going to have to refresh my memory about why Bill McGuire is currently banned from being a director of officer or a publicly-traded company for ten years, then.

    This is similar to the Cosmofan ethos that says "That rich Arab owner=bad. This rich Arab owner=good. Because this one owns my team."
     
    davidrpaige repped this.
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, I was responding specifically to someone whose only "context" was this:

    I wasn't talking about Pohlad vs. Wilf. I don't give a shit about Pohlad vs. Wilf. There's nothing in the post I responded directly to and quoted that adds "context" about Wilf vs. Pohlad. Only Bears fan rejecting soccer team that is not the Vikings because...footbaw.

    I was referring specifically an (apparent) soccer fan in the Twin Cities who could not support an MLS team in his own market that would be tangentially related to the Vikings for the sole apparent reason that he's a fan of the Bears, who have some cute little rivalry with the Vikings.

    That's tribal bullshit.

    You may now return to your rationalizations.
     
    davidrpaige repped this.
  7. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    [Quote OpenCupFan] So there you said it....we need Pro/Rel [/Quote OpenCupFan]
     
  8. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.mnunitedfc.com/news/2015/04/14/breaking-minnesota-united-private-funding-for-stadium-plan

    Minnesota United will put a total private investment of $250 million forward to:

    · Purchase the MLS expansion franchise (at a cost of $100 million dollars).

    · Acquire necessary land for the new soccer facility in a centrally located and under-developed part of Minneapolis (approximately $30 million for land acquisition).

    · Build a first-class MLS soccer facility through private funding (estimated at $120 million).
     
  9. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. FoxBoro 143

    FoxBoro 143 Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Those types of incentives are commonplace in just about every single development in America these days. If you want to build a warehouse, you could get relative incentives.
     
    bullsear repped this.
  11. bullsear

    bullsear Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Where does the author actually get that $48M number? Cause it's not born out by any of his reasoning. Where is this $45m in present value coming from?

    If the city and state are out $3M in one-time sales tax relief and then $3M in property tax per year, it would take 15 years to reach a cost of $48M. And that's to say nothing of the fact that basically every stadium, along with a number of non-stadium building projects, receive this exemption.

    As for the future taxes they'd be exempt from, that is in reference only to property taxes, and it's also pretty standard procedure. Basically the notion is that, should the stadium spur economic growth around it, they shouldn't have additional property taxes levied against them, because that would amount to being penalized for being successful.

    And who the hell is this guy anyway? Where did you even find this article?
     
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  12. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    sorry BullsEar, gotta link both the good and the bad...lol
     
  13. leftout1

    leftout1 Member

    Mar 15, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    According to the article in the Star Tribune, the current total annual city and county property taxes for the land in question is $343,000 - might have helped the article if a little research had been done (this area isn't exactly prime real estate...). So just off a little bit when compared with the $3M annual amount used. So instead of 15 years, I guess we are now closer to 131 years to hit the $45m claimed in the article.
     
    bullsear repped this.
  14. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    #115 USRufnex, Apr 15, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2015
    Field of Schemes is a famous book describing the increasingly deceptive practices used to get public money for stadiums. DeMause is one of the authors.
    http://demause.net/field-of-schemes/

    I read it about 10 years ago when neighborhood/urban activists in Tulsa were referring to it during the proposal of a soccer stadium funded by sales taxes (that proposal lost out to construction of an indoor arena) followed by a soccer stadium to be funded by a combined mixed-use housing/soccer stadium project to be completed by the folks who did the Gallery Place project in Wash, DC (TIF district/tax increment financing). In an eventual tug of war between soccer and baseball interests, the Drillers (who now own the Roughnecks) won with a baseball specific stadium and taxpayer funded subsidized development around the stadium to make it work. When I read the book originally, I felt it was skewed more towards the viewpoints of community activists rather than interests of the general public. And I felt it was unfair to leagues like MLS, who needed soccer stadiums to be competitive with other pro sports. But to be honest, the older I get, the more I sympathize with the views found in that book... especially after looking at the Fire stadium situation in Bridgeview, IL.

    The version I read was 2002 (I think)...
    http://www.amazon.com/Field-Schemes-Stadium-Swindle-Private/dp/1567511384

    If you can't read the most updated version of the book, this three page review should give you an idea or two...
    http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1260&context=sportslaw
     
  15. bullsear

    bullsear Member

    Feb 17, 2009
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
  16. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. USRufnex

    USRufnex Member+

    Tulsa Athletic / Sheffield United
    United States
    Jul 15, 2000
    Tulsa, OK
    Club:
    --other--
    Ouch.

    http://www.twincities.com/politics/ci_27951051/minnesota-senate-gets-started-budget-bills
     
  18. leftout1

    leftout1 Member

    Mar 15, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    NORML repped this.
  19. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://northernpitch.com/articles.h...united-stadium-bill-heads-to-legislature-r736

    Minnesota United FC's stadium end game begins today. State House Rep. Tim Sanders (R-Blaine), and State Sen. Sandy Pappas (D-St. Paul), will each bring to the floor of the Minnesota State House and Senate a bill to give tax exemptions for a soccer stadium in St. Paul. It will also ask for sales tax exemptions for construction materials of the stadium lasting for one year after the completion of the project, and an individual liquor license for Minnesota United FC.
     

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