New FIFA "school" rule: What does it mean for the USMNT?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Clint Eastwood, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    A poster provided this link in another forum, and I think it's news that is applicable on a number of fronts.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/oct/14/scotland-wales-fifa-andy-dorman

    Wales are ready to give the St Mirren midfielder Andy Dorman the chance to be capped at senior level under the new school rule, which changes the criteria of which country British players can represent.

    The English-born Dorman, 27, has no blood ties to the nation but was raised in the Welsh village of Hawarden. Fifa recently ratified the rule change which means that players with five years of compulsory education in the specified country are now eligible to represent that nation.


    So that's interesting. Not only because Andy Dorman is a former MLS player. Can this be extended to nations other than Britain, or are they a special case since these are a bunch of national teams all under the British flag?

    Bakary Soumare was schooled in the United States for 5 years, was he not? So was Vedad Ibisevic. So was Shalrie Joseph. Or maybe to a Bryan Leyva youth player. It seems like a very strange rule, and maybe not applicable to the USMNT. However, Andy Dorman isn't Welsh.........and he can play for them just because he went to school there?
     
  2. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Joseph, I'd imagine, is cap-tied.

    I think this is huge for the kids who spend college in this nation. We wouldn't have lost that kid to I think it was El Salvador because we couldn't get his citizenship in time
     
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yes, so are Soumare and Ibisevic at this point I believe. But this would be a way to get ahold of immigrants........while they want to be USMNT players.........but aren't citizens yet. I think all three of Soumare, Joseph, and Ibisevic has said they would have been interested in the USMNT, had they been eligible.......and they didn't see eligibility coming along any time soon. (due to the length of time it takes to become a citizen in this country)

    I don't know if it applies.......
     
  4. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    The article also uses the word "compulsory." Is college "compulsory?"
     
  5. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    I don't know that High school is compulsory.
     
  6. HoosierToon

    HoosierToon New Member

    Jan 11, 2008
    Hoboken
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does this mean we can just stock Bradenton up with kids from all over the world?

    :)
     
  7. odg78

    odg78 Member

    Feb 14, 2001
    North Carolina
    --I'm not sure it would, the article states that it applies to players with five years of compulsory education so I think it would only affect those who attended high school or below here.
     
  8. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This rule makes things easier for developed countries to plunder talents from poorer countries. I don't think a country like Sierra Leone is going to benefit too much from this rule, but UK certainly can.
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :confused:

    Obviously, Clint. There's no such thing as English citizenship. There is such a thing as American citizenship, and Soumare never got it.
     
  10. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    That's why I wasn't sure it applied. They are all British citizens, but represent the nation of Wales, or the nation of England, etc in soccer. All I know is that I've got more Welsh blood in me than Andy Dorman.............and somehow he can represent Wales because he went to school there.

    I find the whole Britain thing silly when it comes to football. England and Wales have essentially been one country since when.............at least 1707. Longer than we've had a United States, that's for sure. So, who's from where..........I'll grant you I'm not the most knowledgeable person on the subject. It would be like if Virginia and Maryland had two separate soccer teams............and those two regions are so intertwined.....everybody could represent either state. Silly.

    And it seems like a slippery slope if it applied to nations other than England. Every nation has a different definition of "compulsoy" education. What's compulsory education in Ghana?
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I highlighted the key word. Jesus, dude, do you not understand the concept of citizenship? Not to mention the concept of being cap-tied.

    This thread should be closed, frankly.
     
  12. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    I doubt college is considered "compulsory education."
     
  13. Cannons

    Cannons Member+

    May 16, 2005
    Up to a certain age, that varies state by state. Doesn't matter anyway cause Bradley and never gonna use em anyway
     
  14. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    If this rule really is interpreted by FIFA in the manner Clint suggests, it really could open things up for players who have been in this country a long time but aren't citizens because the bureaucracy is so long and difficult to become naturalized.

    Ramon Nunez, Shalrie Joseph, Bakary Soumare, Carlos Ochoa, Chris Gbandi - all these guys could have played for the US under the criteria explained in the first post. Not sure if Vedad spent 5 years here.

    How many years of school did Stefan Frei have in the US? Does college count? Rodney Wallace certainly has five years here BEFORE college. This rule could be great for him. When does it take effect?
     
  15. ThreeApples

    ThreeApples Member+

    Jul 28, 1999
    Smurf Village
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The first paragraph of the article clearly states that this is a specifically British situation:

    Wales are ready to give the St Mirren midfielder Andy Dorman the chance to be capped at senior level under the new school rule, which changes the criteria of which country British players can represent.
     
  16. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Louisville, KY
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Well, the article isn't specific, but it seems to be implying that this is a rule regarding the UK only (being that they are, uniquely, four separate countries within one state). There is a long history of disagreement regarding which British citizen can play for which UK country, and this rule intends to clarify these disagreements. If that is correct, and I'm pretty sure it is, then this rule doesn't apply to any other country or countries, including but not limited to the US.

    Unless anyone can find the written rule and refute what I've said, then I'm gonna have to second Superdave and ask that this thread be closed.
     
  17. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    High School is compulsory up to age 16, generally.
     
  18. Bigrose30

    Bigrose30 Member+

    Sep 11, 2004
    Jersey City, NJ
    The only way this can apply to the United States is if somebody went to school for 5 years in Puerto Rico.

    Perhaps this should be moved to the Puerto Rico NT board.
     
  19. Bluecat82

    Bluecat82 Member+

    Feb 24, 1999
    Minneapolis, MN
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yura Movsysian, perhaps?
     
  20. bradley31

    bradley31 New Member

    Oct 1, 2005
    Puerto Rico has a national team?



    ;)
     
  21. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    Mar 17, 2007
    Colorado (formerly northern Virginia)
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    Mar 17, 2007
    Colorado (formerly northern Virginia)
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. voros

    voros Member

    Jun 7, 2002
    Parts Unknown
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It says "compulsory education" so I think we're talking high school and earlier, no?

    Also Dorman is a citizen of the United Kingdom, so his issue is determining which countries within the UK he's eligible to play for. I'm not sure it becomes applicable for us in this situation, particularly since anyone from Puerto Rico is eligible to play for us regardless.
     
  24. johnsemlak

    johnsemlak Member

    Jun 27, 2009
    New York
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There seems to be some unnecessary talking at cross purposes in this thread. Why does it need to be closed? It seems to be an interesting topic.

    From what I've read in this thread, and I haven't gone to the actual FIFA ruling to confirm anything, it certainly seems this affect the USMNT. If I understand correctly, anyone who spends 5 years of education in childhood but doesn't have US citizenship could be eligible to play for the US team (unless the FIFA statue in question ALSO requires that the individual in question have citizenship of the country in addition to the 5 years of school, which would mean that it primarily affects the UK). I'm not familiar with who this would effect specifically at the moment but apparently there are a number of potential candidates.

    'Compulsory education' is a term FIFA would have to define more clearly especially if it will apply to a large number of nations, but it clearly does not include college/university education but would almost certainly include any education in the US from age 6-16 (the age you're legally required to go to school in most states I think) and might be broadened to include any education in primary or secondary school (high school)..
     
  25. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From the Scottish FA website, who according to news reports proposed the rule. I can't find any information on FIFA's site though.

    "The youngster is the first player to be selected for Scotland under the new FIFA eligibility ruling, which states that a player who holds a British passport, and has been educated for at least five years in one of the Home Nations, is eligible to play for that country."

    From that it seems it only applies to Home Nation eligibility
     

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