New Beginnings - The Arsenal vs. Leicester City, Friday, August 11, 2017 1945 GMT

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by mebeSajid, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    We did exactly that on Friday. We had 75 percent of the possession, and had Leicester penned in for 35 minutes. They didn't have a shot after they scored to make it 3-2.
     
  2. bandwagongooner

    bandwagongooner Member+

    Dec 9, 2006
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think some of the defensive issues stem from starting two left backs at center back. Put some actual CBs in who can deal with aerial balls and things would have been better.
     
  3. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
  4. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Love the way Henry shat on all the color commentators who say "put the ball in the box"
     
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  5. Aaron d

    Aaron d Member+

    May 15, 2005
    Wooster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I love listening to Henry's analysis of strikers. So much knowledge in that guys. He really shows there's more to being a forward than having a great shot or good speed.
     
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  6. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    No doubt - but there is also the issue that so many crosses came in from the right channel where there was simply no pressure on the ball.
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Great video!

    As well as showing how Xhaka bailed on some thru balls - it also shows how the wingbacks need to get forward fast as the diagonal balls were completely on!

    Bayern played a lot this way under Pep in the face of hyena pressing.

    You play a long diagonal over the press. But the key is the wide player has to make the run early to show.

    Arsenal have very pacey players like Welstroz, Alexis, Bellarin and Ozil who can make those runs.

    This is also why i like to see Ozil deeper because he is a Maestro on thru balls.
     
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  8. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The analysis of RvP a few years ago was proof positive that getting into scoring positions is the big half of being an elite striker.
     
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  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This kind of verticality will suit players like Ozil and Ramsey far more

    Ramsey is very strong on arriving late in the box from the 8 position

    Ozil will thrive in countering situations like this.
     
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  10. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That kind of space isn't available in every game though. Xhaka will play the ball quicker (except for the Alexis conundrum). When it is, Lacazette's ability to drift wide AND high will be effective at creating space for Ozil and Ramsey to run into. It's just that Alexis's movement (if we keep him) is infuriating - it's almost as if it's designed to negate wide and high runs that pull defenders out of position.

    RE: your comment about Ozil playing deeper.

    Not sure how I feel about this. The reason Cazorla was so effective in the midfield was the way he linked up with Ozil. Pulling Ozil deeper, without anyone for him to link up with, doesn't seem like it really does anything. Ozil's great at throughballs, sure, but throughballs are really difficult when the other team has parked the bus.
     
  11. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    New Gunners or SOA (Same old Arsenal)?
     
  12. flyerhawk

    flyerhawk Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Hoboken NJ
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh I agree. I loved how they played being down 3-2 against a bunker and counter team. Multiple quality scoring opportunities.
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    True - but variation in the verticality will still be very helpful. e.g. if Lacazette is making those runs then as you say then he is pulling the defensive line deeper at a time when a pressing unit is trying to make the pitch small.

    You could also see that when Leicester was in the low block Arsenal had good movement to try to play through, switch etc - last year it was often absurdly static.

    By playing deeper, i largely mean he is returning to his normal role after the failed 16/17 experience of him playing as a goal scoring forward.

    The positions he was taking up were quite similar to how he plays for Germany with Kroos - the two of them control the game together.
     
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  14. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    wenger gonna wenger.
     
  15. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I agree with you, Jitty. I'm just saying that Alexis's tendency to drift inside when there's space to get vertical slows the attack down.


    Here's hoping, then.
     
  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Agreed

    I think Alexis could work in a 3-4-3 with Laca if Arsenal had also a decent winger?

    Then they would all be making different runs
     
  17. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Adding another elite winger would make Arsenal much more effective in attack, regardless of composition, BUT, Arsenal's ideal 3-4-3 currently has Alexis-Lacazette-Ozil as the front three.

    Another winger pushes Ozil into the midfield next to Xhaka, and while I think Ozil's linkup play is varied enough that the attack will do well with Ozil in that role, the defensive risks are a little concerning. IIRC, that Rene Maric article you love to cite notes that Ozil's understanding of team spacing in attack (think the Xavi Hernandez role) isn't that great. The best we've seen Arsenal play in the last few seasons was when Cazorla played in that role, and that's not a surprise: his understanding of space in the context of team structure is really good.

    There aren't that many players that can play that role, and teams spend a lot of time trying to find players who can: it's why Guardiola bought Thiago and then Gundogan, and the best exponent of it is Marco Verratti. IMO, a better solution is to have a more rigid team structure - if you can't find the player that your system needs to reach peak performance, that's a weakness in the system.
     
  18. daedalus

    daedalus Member+

    Apr 24, 2004
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    i think the ideal thing with the formation and that trio is ozil will automatically flow to space, sanchez is gonna sanchez, and lacazette (at least so far) appears to be willing to flow, largely, into space and be willing to attack the far post. the wide left space that would have otherwise been left as a wasteland by sanchez's lack of position discipline would now be filled by whoever is the left wingback.
     
  19. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Oh yeah I completely agree with that analysis. That's also why Ozil played so well at the Euros with Toni Kroos.

    Kroos dominates the ball, whereas Ozil does much of his work off the ball, either ahead of Kroos or in the channels.

    Santi is easily Arsenal's best central midfielder.

    Hopefully Xhaka has begun to solve the 6+8 issue - though there is still no proper 8

    It's interesting Maric suggested a switch to 3 at the back in 2014 to solve these issues

    http://spielverlagerung.com/2014/11/16/wengers-problems-and-arsenals-long-term-crisis/
     
  20. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    The big problem which I doubt will be fixed is this one.

    TBF vs Leicester, at least offensively there did seem to be much more effort from Ozil to point and click where he wanted people to move, he himself showed for the ball in space constantly, and the team was much tighter together. Laca also gets this much more than Giroud (often very static) and Welstroz is full of running. Ramsey does make the overloading runs.

    But how many times have we seen an aimless attack there there is no movement, lame switching, and then the inevitable hopeless cross.
     
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  21. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I have always had an issue with the spacing of the side

    Seems inconsistent and the lack of effort to penetrate quickly seems strange
     

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