Foul (say a hold or maybe a slight trip) that is very near touch in the attacking 1/2 - clearly a foul that would be an AR flag. Attacking player plays through and is an appropriate advantage situation. Play continues and it's a borderline call whether advantage was realized and squandered or should be called back for the original foul My questions: How should the AR indicate/communicate the original foul and advantage? Should the AR take responsibility for deciding the advantage was lost and at that point throw the flag and call it back? Other comment or discussion
There is no need to communicate anything about the advantage unless someone questions you about the delay. Flag the foul as if you had called it at that moment and maybe help indicate where the restart is if the center is unclear of what transpired
What was said in the pregame? I tell my AR don't be afraid to wait for the advantage because always being it back for the foul, so wait and see if appropriate. It's something covered in my pregame so it's pretty obvious to me usually why the late at flag happened and I can verbally announce no advantage on the play and bring it back.
Fouls are to be signaled when the AR Determines that the infringement was not or could not be seen by the referee and that, per the pregame conference, the referee would likely have stopped play for the infringement if it had been seen That means that In the case of fouls or misconduct not seen by the referee, determines whether the referee would not have applied advantage and stopped play for the offense if it had been seen (keeps flag down and does not use the verbal/hand signal for advantage) Both quotes are from the GTP. In other words, the AR signal for advantage is exactly the same as the signal for no foul. While logistically challenging, perhaps, I see nothing to suggest that an AR cannot raise a late flag if the perceived advantage is not realized -- but great care must be used to not be usurping the judgment of the referee on such a flag.
This happened in the Arsenal-Man City match yesterday. The AR raised his flag and gave it a wave and pointed for direction to signal he had a foul and he did it all on the run. Marriner raised his arms to signal advantage and the AR dropped the flag. He never broke stride.
This is my concern. Other than headset there seems to be no way for the AR to say "hey foul here - referee it's advantage for you to decide". It seems there should be. The example listed above is interesting I've never seen it done but speaks to my question.
pre game, pre game, pre game, pre game Especially for most of us who do youth games with experience levels of your AR all over the chart. For "less experienced" I don't want them worrying about fouls, I'll take care of it. For more experienced, I may have them signal the foul I'll decide advantage, for experienced, sure go for it, have at it, I'll back you up
Maybe I'm being dense, but how would you expect them to signal the foul? If I stop and give the standard signal I've now lose my ability to be in position for the play continuing on the advantage and I would expect probably 90% of the centers I work with will whistle and stop play and then the attacking team is appropriately irritated that they lost the advantage. If I keep running to stay in position for the advantage I've got no (standard) way that I've ever been taught to signal to the CR that a foul took place in the first place. I guess I'm looking for the super secret signal that all you higher level guys use to communicate this situation. Popping my flag and waving it as I continue to run down the line seemed a bit...odd.
Proper pregame by the center referee. My regular AR s have no issues with waiting and then signalling, it's usually pretty obvious that they are signaling a foul where the advantage didn't materialize.
It seems like you're too worried about getting credit for the advantage. If it's advantage and the cr doesn't indicate with play on, that doesn't void your ability to come back and signal it when it doesn't materialize. Tell the players in your immediate vicinity that no advantage transpired and if the CR is so dense that he can't tell what's going then you probably have other issues going on in the game The harder question you're not asking is what if you say advantage has not transpired and the cr thinks it has?
The referee didn't even realize a foul had occurred in the situation that brought this question to my mind. And the play shortly after was one where realizing an advantage was questionable so it was confusing to me. I guess since he did not signal advantage verbally I should assume he didn't see the foul and therefore take the call for advantage or not upon myself at that point.
I can tell you what I do when I work as AR for guys/gals I know and work with a lot. First its eye contact. If I see a foul in my area with a moving play, I'm looking towards the R. Did he/she see it? Are they looking at me funny or do I see something that makes me think either they need help or that they are playing through it? I will often point with my off flag hand at the spot on the field where I think the foul took place and sometimes even yell out something like "you got it." That way they know I have seen it too and that I am leaving the call up to them. If they are a long way away and I think I'm on my own I will make a quick judgement and throw a flag on what I think needs one. Sometimes thats all you can do. I will say that the matches I do tend to be with with a fairly regular set of folks and we all know each other well. That makes it easier to deal with. I can also say that sometimes you end up working with a R who says in their pregame "I have everything between the lines. You have offside and balls in and out of play." That solves the problem completely. It opens a whole other can or worms, but the issue of signaling a foul or not is off the table.
Again, PREGAME. Couple that with experience, so here's what I did: - not experienced AR: Get offside and in'/out of play, I'll take care of fouls, so no issue. - Bit more, experience. Here's what I want you to do: foul happens, find me! If you REALLY think it needs calling because I look like I missed it, go for it. I should actually be able to see you if I am positioned right so I will be nodding my head "no" or I will be calling it. However, things happen, if you feel the need to call it, go for it, standard signals. I MIGHT decide to play advantage in which case I will be VERY loud and at that point you drop your flag and bust your butt to get back in position. No harm, lets get it right - Very experienced, look at me, if I am not nodding you off, go with your judgement, I got your back.