Nations League A, Camp 1, Cuba/Canada, Oct. 11/15

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by thedukeofsoccer, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cuba is on Oct. 11th in the U.S. at a not yet disclosed location, Canada Oct. 15 at Toronto's BMO Field.

    I didn't think I'd be as interested in this competition, as I am, at least initially. Cuba is a throwaway match, but Canada, especially on the road, now that's fun. We rarely play them in a meaningful match and they're actually respectable now. So it's a new experience and the coaches could gather useful info going forward.

    Setting the team up for WC qualifying should be the top goal for this tourney. Winning is secondary. However, I don't think we or the brass should accept getting KO'ed in the group stage certainly. So those objectives will need to be balanced.

    There is going to be a conflict with Olympic qualifying. So what to prioritize and how to allocate players to the two rosters is going to be part of the equation of how strong of a group is brought here.

    Also, the four matches will be an opportunity for players looking to make a winter move to gain necessary caps and showcases. So that has to be a factor in the roster selection.

    In addition this round will take place right before MLS begins their playoff season. So that may factor into the equation for the decision.

    I'd expect a similar strength squad as Mexico utilized in the Gold Cup, at about a B+ level.

    Thoughts on the roster, goals, and amount of anticipation for this camp and tourney?
     
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  2. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think whats interesting in the remaining breaks this year each having conflicts (champions/europa league for sept, olympic qualifying for nations league) is that we could/id like to see very "specialized" rosters. which could be good in terms of going deeper into our pool than we tend to do, at the expense of assembling/refining a "first/a team" that really isnt necessary at this point.

    with the sept friendlies we have half a dozen guys (established in the team) who will be involved in cl/el, and a lot who will be early in season with new teams, so i think thats a good opportunity for a primarily mls squad.

    the olympic qualifying squad will also be primarily mls players so it makes sense to build that sept squad around zimmerman, cannon, bradley (just threw up in my mouth a little) and use those locked down pulisic, mckennie, etc spots to bring in pomykal etc who will most likely not be available for nl.

    which leads to the nl (i assume two breaks this calendar year with the next round started next year?)- id assume that will be primarily euro based. obviously the olympic qualifying players wouldnt be available- id like to see us use those camps to further explore/evaluate our ya pool.

    i want to first say bradley, zardes, altidore, etc will absolutely be there. thats our ussf reality. im just going to give MY thoughts here...

    id really rather not use mls based players there if for no other reason than getting to see more players. we will have the vast majority of current and future/potential talent, and i dont believe we need the training wheels of a bradley or an altidore.

    with a euro-core of pulisic, adams, mckennie, brooks, yedlin, steffen i think we have more than enough to manage our matchups with cuba/canada. and in place of those mls safety blankets we can look at other options (weah, sargent, morales, ccv, amon, gall, etc).

    thats, overall, an approach i think could be very useful. bringing in our best possible team in sept (minus cl/el players, but bringing in players who may not be settled into their euro teams) for friendlies just seems completely unnecessary to me.

    a 1-1 tie with mexico and 2-1 loss to uraguay (the second isnt set, and im just speculating) with the usual suspects teaches us nothing- not to mention the results dont matter regardless. seeing how pomykal, parks, hollingshead, etc can do against quality opponents at least expands our knowledge of the pool.

    so, at this point (a lot can, and will change, as seasons progress and begin) id break it down roughly along these lines:

    mls-based for sept friendlies

    gk johnson, miller, gonzalez

    rb cannon, lima

    cb long, zimmerman, robinson

    lb lovitz, hollingshead

    cm bradley, trapp, pomykal, roldan, lletget, hyndman

    rw morris

    st altidore, zardes

    lw arriola, wooten


    and euro-based for (this opening round of) nations league

    gk steffen, horvath

    rb yedlin, dest

    cb brooks, miazga, ccv, epb/richards

    lb robinson, gloster

    cm adams, mckennie, pulisic, holmes, morales

    rw boyd

    st novakovich, sargent

    lw weah, amon


    final note- i dont have full rosters cause im just making it up as i go along. just think of it as leaving room for berhalters nonsense (ream, mihailovic, etc).
     
  3. wixson7

    wixson7 Member+

    May 12, 2009
    boulder
    the hidden beauty of this 'tourney' is that it's an official senior team game so it is a oppty to cap some players. Otherwise it would be 6 games over 3 months of worthless friendlies. If we are going to play, might as well cap a few dude instead of having to wait another 16 months before qualifying starts.
     
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  4. OlympiquedeMarseille

    Apr 18, 2012
    Ottawa
    Club:
    Ottawa Fury
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    They moved it to Jan/Feb in the USA:
     
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  5. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So that means stronger MLS squads for U.S. and Canada. But it's a double-edged sword. It will be in the midst of their offseasons.

    As far as Nations League, the only reservations would be the MLS playoffs which will be on the horizon, and how much this competition is valued.

    I'd guess it was moved so this tourney would be taken more seriously as well as Olympic Qualifying. That's an inherent positive. But they didn't need to move the location. Guess it's to give the U.S. better chance to advance and for max financial gain.
     
  6. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have this for my roster as of today:

    FW: Altidore, Sargent, 2 of Novakovich/Morris/Boyd, Pulisic, Weah

    MF: Pomykal, Corona/Mueller, Adams, McKennie, 2 of Roldan/Holmes/Morales

    DF: Cannon, Lima, Yedlin, Hollingshead/Dest, Brooks, Long, Zimmerman, M. Robinson

    GK: Steffen, Horvath, Gonzalez/Miller

    /= dependent on developments up until then

    Cuba example xi:

    -------Sargent------
    -Novakovich---Boyd
    ----------Pomykal-----
    ------- Roldan-------
    Dest-----Morales--Cannon
    ----Robinson--Zimmerman-
    ------------Horvath-------------

    Canada example xi:

    ------Altidore------
    Weah--------Pulisic
    ------Pomykal-------
    ---------McKennie---
    Lima---Adams---Cannon
    ------Brooks--Long--------
    ---------Steffen------------
     
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  7. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    September Mexico/Uruguay
    *note: USSF was dumb for scheduling this match up against Mexico when we should be calling up a B team for this international block.
    GK Horvath, Johnson, Miller
    RB Cannon, Araujo
    CB Long (CPT), M. Robinson
    CB Zimmerman, Alvarado
    LB Lima, Gutman
    M6 Morales, Canouse
    M8 Nagbe, Roldan
    10 Pomykal, Lletget
    RW Arriola, Morris
    FW Altidore, Novakovich
    LW Holmes, Amon

    October Nations Cup
    GK Steffen, Horvath, Johnson
    RB Yedlin, Chandler
    CB Brooks, Long
    CB Miazga, Carter-Vickers
    LB Dest, A. Robinson
    M6 Adams, Morales
    M8 McKennie (CPT), Nagbe
    10 Pulisic, Pomykal
    RW Boyd, Arriola
    FW Sargent, Soto
    LW Weah, Holmes
     
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  8. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Cuba (4-2-3-1): Horvath; Robinson - Miazga - CCV - Dest; Adams - McKennie; Gall - Pulisic - Weah; Sargent

    Canada (4-2-3-1): Steffen; Robinson - Brooks - Long - Yedlin; Adams - McKennie; Arriola - Pulisic - Boyd; Altidore

    Extremely subject to change. The non-negotiable part is cap-tying Dest v. Cuba.
     
  9. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    For a good Canadian side:

    --laryea---fraser----+1?-----williams
    -------------------kaye
    -----------piette--------osorio
    ------------------arfield
    ----------david---------cavallini


    ------------jozy----sargent
    ---------------pulisic
    -------pomykal-------roldan
    ------------------adams
    ----ream---long------miazga---lima
    ---------------gk: Horvath
     
  10. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    Since it is now all but impossible for the USMNT to fall down the FIFA rankings far enough to miss the Hex, calling up, looking at, and capping young players, especially dual nationals, should be the primary objective of these games.
     
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  11. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    Yep. Can you imagine if Egg fails to call up Dest and he blows up at Ajax this season? I can.
     
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  12. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    That Nations Cup roster looks likes what should be the WC 2022 Hex roster. I like it. Please e-mail that to Gregg Berhalter c/o Earnie Stewart at the USSF.
     
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  13. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I might quibble over a few things but I’d be 1000 times better with this than what I’ve seen so far.
     
  14. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's just practically a list of players already in Europe, many second divisions and only established as youth teamers as of right now, because presumably he wanted to cast a wide net and see as many guys as realistically possible between the two camps, after which they'd coalesce. The final hex roster should be a lot more mixed and established than that. Some of those MLS players will be in Europe then btw.
     
  15. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    its not either/or (winning v cap tying players), and its not about locking guys down (im arguing abstractly, not that youre saying that).

    we should be bringing in dest cause daniel freaking lovitz. invite pierre cause hes a quality player with a world of potential (ESPECIALLY since hes actually fits berhalters janky ass "system"). ferreira produces more than zardes and he turned 18 like this week.

    how does it make sense worrying about players choosing the netherlands or colombia when we are the dysfunctional, ridiculous fed who wont play guys who might be good enough for the netherlands or colombia?

    this is such a stupid, american argument. we worry about young talent getting away- the problem is why the hell arent we playing that young talent in the first place?
     
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  16. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    We shall see. But that is pretty much the highest ceiling roster at the moment.
     
  17. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    You are correct, in an ideal situation, of course. But we need to lock those guys down now, so that if and when Egg finally figures out that they are USMNT material, they won't be playing for other countries already.
     
  18. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He wasn't eligible to play for the US during the Gold Cup. He supposedly just received his citizenship and is now waiting for a FIFA waiver that allows him to play for the US. He should be in consideration for U23 qualifying and from there if he impresses move on to the full team. He hasn't played with the other U20's for a while now (ever since the games became official - U17, U20).
     
  19. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know what we'll see about or how it has the highest ceiling.

    - CCV is not a high ceiling player. M. Robinson and Richards are. Zimmerman is higher ceiling and caps could get him to the EPL/BL while CCV plies his trade in the C'Ship. So will Miazga this season, and if he proves good enough has freedom of movement w/out NT caps.

    - Chandler has been tried a lot already, struggled for the NT, and burned a ton of bridges w/ his off field comments and actions. That ship has sailed.

    - We've seen Pulisic at the 10. It doesn't work unless there are 3 cm's behind him in a diamond. Pomykal is a better decision-maker and younger. He should be carrying the ball to Pulisic who is operating 1 v. 1 on the wing.

    - Not capping Long and Cannon would be organizational malpractice. Long needs 1 cap between the 4 games to automatically qualify for a WP. Cannon could also use the caps and showcases to propel him.

    We'll see what these non-established players do w/ their clubs. Call them up when they're established, relative to the club they're at. They don't have much standing in the way. Call-ups shouldn't be much about predictions. This is not a youth team.
     
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  20. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Sounds like we picked the wrong time to go bare on our malpractice insurance.
     
  21. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the games we are talking about are in october.

    i was just using his production as a comparison to a player our sr team manager insists on playing/usually starting. what level has zardes impressed at? all it took for zardes to move on to the full team was his coach getting hired.

    obviously youre right and the olympic qualifying team makes the most sense for ferreira, im just commenting on the sr team. there are at least half a dozen guys who should be playing instead of zardes, regardless of their level of "readiness".
     
  22. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I won't disagree with that but my hope is that in a year or two we won't even remember these games because of all the turnover and upgrades.
     
  23. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    LOL. Do you really believe this crap?

    Chandler was a target since 2012 the moment he ended Omar Gonzalez ( bruce arena clan network) European career in a Nurnberg training session.

    Chandler had to deal with constant non-sense for years. he was blamed for everything, and Klinsmann took him to the world cup for a reason.
     
  24. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL Are you really this ignorant? In one of his more recent NT camps he told a player to focus on his club over country. That should have been the final nail in the coffin to anybody choosing country over one player.

    This was after initially avoiding call-ups so he wouldn't get cap-tied, and ultimately performing far below club level while often seemingly not trying which fits everything else he's done. Nobody should trust him around these players and on the field for a match of any importance.
     
  25. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    C’mon duke.

    Wood was injured and telling a player to be mindful of his career obligations is actually helping the team as it sure “Wood” be nice to have someone pushing Altidore right now. Wood tried to play through the injury and hasn’t been the same player since.

    “Not trying”? He flew to a camp when he knew he was injured, despite being a bad flier, and then was sent home by the USMNT trainers.
     
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