NASL needs to get on the ball with expansion with Minnesota United joining MLS. I assume they will go in for 2019 so they should be in NASL for a few years but expansion needs to get into gear.
"Thanks. We didn't realize that, but now that you bring it up, we will have to get cracking instead of just not thinking about expansion at all, like we have been doing. Sincerely, The NASL"
Hartford, Hamilton and Los Angeles seem to be the most solid NASL expansion rumors right now. Still no news on them in a while. Los Angeles was supposed to be announced months ago.
Jeff Carlisle@JeffreyCarlisle · 1 hr1 hour ago I'm hearing that the proposed deal to bring an #nasl team to LA is in danger of falling apart. At minimum, it will be pushed out to 2016. Jeff Carlisle@JeffreyCarlisle · 27 mins27 minutes ago The latter. RT @THEChrisKessell: how exactly is it falling apart? Stadium? Investors?
Well, I am surprised that they are far along to be falling apart. Better to fall apart now, than after they are announced ala Virginia and OKC. They need the West coast team by 2016 or 2017 or 2018?
Because I am procrastinating, I came up with a list of cities/locations that on the surface (market size) would seem to be good cities for the NASL IF they were able to get an owner, stadium, and support. The only qualification I used is they can't currently have a team in MLS or USL, and not extremely close to another current or potential team. San Fran/Oakland - has been discussed a lot and has its own thread San Diego Las Vegas - if what has been said this might be a USL city soon Fresno - also seem to be heading down the USL path as soon as Sacramento goes MLS Ft. Worth - is it distinct enough from Dallas? New Orleans Milwaukee Detroit Grand Rapids Memphis Nashville Cincinatti Cleveland Buffalo Baltimore - is it distinct enough from DC? Hartford - has been said to be interested Birmingham - overshadowed by college sports, most notable football? Alberquerque New Jersey East Chicago/Gary/Hammond Des Moines Tucson
South New Jersey (Atlantic city)? Because you have Red Bulls in North Jersey and the Union in South Jersey. South Dallas or Fort Worth could perhaps work, if there ws some type of stadium to be had for a good deal. Just like Chicago in the city / West Burbs / Northside. But again stadium issues.
I don't see stuff such as potential stadium or owner issues as relevant when it comes to speculation like this. At this point I think size of market and potential fan interest is the only thing relevant.
Atlantic City is a metro of 275k. That's it. It's also a poverty stricken cesspool where even the casinos are starting to close up shop. South Jersey, including Atlantic City, is basically a Philly suburb when it comes to sports. North Jersey is the same for New York. The NJ Devils, despite usually being good and having won multiple Stanley Cups in recent years, are one of only 5 teams in the NHL that don't hit at least 90% capacity at home this season. Their attendance hasn't been higher than 20th in the league for several years running. Jersey is already claimed and there's really nothing that will change that. Oh, and a legit owner will always be the #1 issue concerning potential new NASL teams. Nothing else matters until that is in place.
There is a difference between legitimate NASL trying to put a team in a city, and fans on a forum speculating about a cities capability to host a team. Unless one of us works for the NASL or knows a rich person who wants to own a team none of us have any idea if there is a potential owner or not. It is an asinine question to ask as it just is highly unlikely anyone on here would have the contacts to actually know the answer of if there is a valid potential owner or not.
Plenty of markets. It's not markets that is the limiting factor. It's owners who want to invest in a NASL team. Many of the large markets could support more teams (New York, Los Angeles, Bay Area, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Dallas) if the team is placed in a distinct sub-market region from the existing teams. But there are plenty of markets that are not served at all. The owners willing to invest are the limiting factor. Each of the cities on the following list with NONE next to them could thrive if they had their own Bill Edwards type benefactor, except for Honolulu which would be logistically impractical. New York (NYRB, NYC FC - MLS; Cosmos - NASL; NYRB 2 - USL) - 23.4M Los Angeles (Galaxy, LA FC - MLS; OC Blues - USL) - 18.2M Chicago (Fire - MLS) - 9.8M Washington DC (DC United - MLS) - 9.3M San Francisco Bay Area (Earthquakes - MLS) - 8.3M Boston (Revolution - MLS) - 8.0M Philadelphia (Union - MLS) - 7.4M Dallas (FC Dallas - MLS) - 7.0M Miami (Miami-Beckham - MLS; Ft. Lauderdale Strikers - NASL) - 6.3M Houston (Dynamo - MLS) - 6.3M Atlanta (Atlanta 2017 - MLS; Silverbacks - NASL) - 6.0M Toronto, Canada (Toronto FC - MLS; TFC2 - USL) - 5.5M Detroit - NONE - 5.3M Seattle (Sounders - MLS; Sounders 2 - USL) - 4.4M Riverside/San Bernardino CA - NONE - 4.3M (included in LA above) Phoenix (Arizona United - USL) - 4.3M Montreal, Canada (Impact - MLS; FC Montreal - USL) - 3.8M Minneapolis (Minnesota United - NASL->MLS) - 3.7M Cleveland - NONE - 3.5M Denver (Rapids - MLS) - 3.2M San Diego - NONE - 3.1M Portland (Timbers - MLS; Timbers 2 - USL) - 3.0M Orlando (Orlando City - MLS) - 2.9M St. Louis (Saint Louis FC - USL) - 2.9M Tampa (Tampa Bay Rowdies - NASL) - 2.8M Baltimore - NONE - 2.7M (included in Washington DC above) Pittsburgh (Riverhounds - USL) - 2.6M Sacramento (Republic FC - USL) - 2.4M Charlotte (Independence - USL) - 2.4M Kansas City (Sporting KC - MLS) - 2.3M Vancouver, Canada (Whitecaps - MLS; Whitecaps 2 - USL) - 2.3M Salt Lake City (Real SL - MLS; Real Monarchs - USL) - 2.3M Columbus (Crew - MLS) - 2.3M Indianapolis (Indy Eleven - NASL) - 2.3M Las Vegas - NONE - 2.2M San Antonio (Scorpions - NASL) 2.2M Cincinnati - NONE - 2.1M Milwaukee - NONE - 2.0M Raleigh (Carolina Railhawks - NASL) - 2.0M Nashville - NONE - 1.8M Austin (Aztex - USL) - 1.8M Virginia Beach - NONE - 1.8M Greensboro NC - NONE - 1.6M Providence RI - NONE - 1.6M (included in Boston above) Jacksonville (Armada - NASL) - 1.5M Hartford - NONE - 1.5M Louisville (Louisville City - USL) - 1.4M New Orleans - NONE - 1.4M Grand Rapids MI - NONE - 1.4M Greenville SC - NONE - 1.3M Memphis - NONE 1.3M Oklahoma City (Energy - USL) 1.3M Birmingham - NONE 1.3M Ottawa, Canada (Fury - NASL) 1.2M Calgary, Canada - NONE - 1.2M Richmond (Kickers - USL) - 1.2M Harrisburg (City Islanders - USL) - 1.2M Buffalo - NONE - 1.2M Edmonton, Canada (FC Edmonton - NASL) - 1.1M Rochester (Rhinos - USL) - 1.1M Albany - NONE - 1.1M Albuquerque - NONE - 1.1M Tulsa (Roughnecks - USL) - 1.1M Fresno - NONE - 1.1M Knoxville - NONE - 1.0M Dayton - NONE - 1.0M El Paso - NONE - 1.0M Tucson - NONE - 1.0M Cape Coral FL - NONE - 0.9M Honolulu - NONE - 0.9M (logistically impractical) Chattanooga - NONE - 0.9M Bridgeport CT - NONE - 0.9M Worcester MA - NONE - 0.9M Omaha - NONE - 0.9M Sarasota FL - NONE - 0.9M Columbia SC - NONE - 0.9M Little Rock - NONE - 0.8M McAllen TX - NONE - 0.8M New Haven CT - NONE - 0.8M (included in New York above) Bakersfield CA - NONE - 0.8M Madison WI - NONE - 0.8M Oxnard CA - NONE - 0.8M (included in Los Angeles above) Allentown-Bethlehem PA - NONE - 0.8M (included in New York above) Baton Rogue - NONE - 0.8M Modesto CA - NONE - 0.7M Des Moines - NONE - 0.7M Quebec City, Canada - NONE - 0.7M Winnipeg, Canada - NONE - 0.7M Hamilton, Canada - NONE - 0.7M Syracuse - NONE - 0.7M South Bend IN - NONE - 0.7M Boise - NONE - 0.7M Huntington WV - NONE - 0.7M Lexington KY - NONE - 0.7M Stockton CA - NONE - 0.7M (included in SF Bay Area above) Akron - NONE - 0.7M (included in Cleveland above) Charleston SC (Battery - USL) - 0.7M
Those are the CSAs, not the MSAs that are used by USSF for D2 standards. Otherwise, your point is spot on.
Another way to look at it is TV market ranks, since TV drives so much revenue for sports leagues: Rank Metropolitan Market Regions / Areas 1 New York MLSx2/NASL/USL 2 Los Angeles MLSx2/USL 3 Chicago MLS 4 Philadelphia MLS 5 Dallas-Ft. Worth MLS 6 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose MLS 7 Boston MLS 8 Atlanta MLS/NASL? 9 Washington, DC MLS 10 Houston MLS 11 Detroit NONE 12 Phoenix USL 13 Tampa-St. Petersburg NASL 14 Seattle-Tacoma MLS 15 Minneapolis-St. Paul NASL->MLS 16 Miami-Ft.Lauderdale MLS-to-be/NASL 17 Cleveland-Akron NONE 18 Denver MLS 19 Orlando-Daytona Beach-Melbourne MLS 20 Sacramento-Stockton-Modesto USL 21 St. Louis USL 22 Portland, OR MLS 23 Pittsburgh USL 24 Charlotte, NC USL 25 Indianapolis NASL 26 Baltimore NONE 27 Raleigh-Durham NASL 28 San Diego NONE 29 Nashville NONE 30 Hartford-New Haven NONE 31 Kansas City MLS 32 Columbus, OH MLS 33 Salt Lake City MLS 34 Cincinnati NONE 35 Milwaukee NONE 36 Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson NONE 37 San Antonio NASL 38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce None, but Strikers are nearby 39 Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek NONE 40 Birmingham NONE 41 Harrisburg-Lancaster-Lebanon-York USL 42 Las Vegas NONE 43 Norfolk-Portsmouth-Newport News NONE 44 Albuquerque-Santa Fe NONE 45 Oklahoma City USL 46 Greensboro-High Point-Winston-Salem NONE 47 Jacksonville, FL NASL 48 Memphis NONE 49 Austin USL 50 Louisville USL 51 Buffalo NONE 52 Providence-New Bedford None but Revs are close 53 New Orleans NONE 54 Wilkes Barre-Scranton NONE 55 Fresno-Visalia NONE 56 Little Rock-Pine Bluff NONE 57 Albany-Schenectady-Troy NONE 58 Richmond-Petersburg USL 59 Knoxville NONE 60 Mobile-Pensacola NONE 61 Tulsa USL 62 Ft. Myers-Naples NONE 63 Lexington NONE 64 Dayton NONE 65 Charleston-Huntington WV - NONE 66 Flint-Saginaw-Bay City NONE 67 Roanoke-Lynchburg NONE 68 Tucson NONE 69 Wichita-Hutchinson NONE 70 Green Bay-Appleton NONE 71 Des Moines-Ames NONE 72 Honolulu NONE, but impractical 73 Toledo NONE 74 Springfield, MO NONE 75 Spokane NONE 76 Omaha NONE 77 Portland-Auburn NONE 78 Paducah-Cape Girardeau-Harrisburg NONE 79 Columbia, SC NONE 80 Rochester, NY USL 81 Syracuse NONE 82 Huntsville-Decatur NONE 83 Champaign-Springfield-Decatur NONE 84 Shreveport NONE 85 Madison NONE 86 Chattanooga NONE 87 Harlingen-Weslaco-Brownsville-McAllen NONE 88 Cedar Rapids-Waterloo-Iowa City-Dubuque NONE 89 South Bend-Elkhart NONE 90 Jackson, MS NONE 91 Colorado Springs-Pueblo USL 92 Tri-Cities, TN-NC-VA NONE 93 Burlington-Plattsburgh NONE 94 Waco-Temple-Bryan NONE 95 Baton Rouge NONE 96 Savannah NONE 97 Davenport-Rock Island-Moline NONE 98 El Paso NONE 99 Charleston, SC USL 100 Ft. Smith-Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers NONE So again plenty of markets if you look at it TV wise, though you can see that it would really tier out that you'd want all of the top 10, many of 11-30, several of the 31-60 and 61-100 are probably irrelevant in terms of getting you a national TV deal that pays real money. So this also makes Don Garber's statement about El Paso and MLS look as ridiculous as it was - never gonna happen in today's MLS, maybe in 2004's MLS. For NASL, it has an opportunity to take Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, San Diego and the next tier of cities along with a few franchises in the major markets to make itself LOOK like a major league to try to get a TV package from someone who isn't paying MLS and needs programming. Short of that, they end up looking like the International League or Pacific Coast League in MiLB - nothing wrong with that, you just aren't getting that TV package and you're never challenging MLS (again, nothing wrong with that too).
How the hell does Sacramento get to claim Stockton and Modesto in part of its viewing area? That's what 75 miles? If your going to do that, then you could also say that San Antonio to Austin is the San Antonio viewing area which is basically the same distance . Which would move SA-Austin viewing area to top 20 at least.
You do realize that the TV markets are defined by what signal is shown in each market, right? How far away is completely irrelevant. If Stockton is showing the Sacramento stations, then they're part of the Sacramento TV market. That's one thing that works against both San Antonio and Austin as they're both in areas that have their extended MSAs served by other TV markets. Less than half of SA and Austin MSAs are in their actual TV markets. It's one of the reasons why I'm interested to see what happens to the idea of TV markets as sports viewing becomes more and more decentralized and traditional broadcast sources become less and less definitive of what is watched in a region.
Or just use the numbers straight from Nielsen themselves. http://www.tvb.org/media/file/Nielsen_2014-2015_DMA_Ranks.pdf
They didn't have a draft, genius. Guess what? Sarasota is in Tampa's TV market, too. Austin is big enough to be its own TV market. And, lo and behold, it is. THAT'S why it's not part of San Antonio.
smartass.. where did I say they had a draft? Just pointing out how random these rankings are. IF you want to put Central CA for Sacramento .. OK, but if you are MLS, NASL and looking at the same area, then San Antonio/Austin would be a better market. Plus do we really need 7 MLS teams on the West Coast and 4 in CA? Texas would be great with 3 teams.
How hard is it to understand that they're based on the number of households being broadcast to by a particular set of local TV stations? How is that random? It's about as cut and dry as it gets.
The number of Providence-area stadiums capable of hosting an NASL team could go from zero to two as early as 2017. The Pawtucket Red Sox were recently purchased by one of the Red Sox owners and a local well-connected 'super lawyer". Immediately, they announced plans to build a stadium on a very nice spot downtown on the river. That lawyer (who is also the head lawyer for the Red Sox) is insanely well-connected and has been involved in every major Providence development for decades (which probably means he was also involved in stopping every other major proposal). So the stadium is getting done, broke city/state be damned. In an interview after the announcement, that lawyer mentioned they would like to make it a true "city stadium" and host college soccer and lacrosse. That may just be something to appease Brown University, who was supposed to use that land for some sort of biotech joint venture. The business climate here sucks, plus seemingly every other city got sucked into offering tax breaks for biotechs, so there have been no takers. It could also be a redirection ploy to suck more free stuff from the deal. Still, if they design the stadium to support rectangular sports (the Red Sox owner Larry Lucchino loved helping to design jetBlue Park and is excited about this one), a pro soccer team could play there and it would be a fantastic location. Here's the spot: The view in the other direction is much more spectacular. Also, the planned pedestrian bridge over the hurricane barrier to the left of the site all of a sudden started to see progress. Go figure. That would make it easier for the city's wealthier residents to walk to games. This frees up McCoy stadium which is owned by the state. It is likely it will be re-purposed for high school sports and they could be looking for a tenant: Making it into a soccer and/or football stadium would actually free up land for more legitimate parking (overflow is in a middle school lot). So yeah, RIP $11 box seats but real opportunities for a D2 soccer team in my neck of the woods.
Foxborough is actually closer to Providence than it is to Boston right? At that rate, why not target a Boston team in the city or on the northern side?