Mr. Josmer Volmy Altidore

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by 50/50 Ball, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    No. They need someone who is legitimately as good or better than them. Jozy doesn't phone it in for Toronto. His gpg rate is fairly constant, and usually at the up-reaches of US MLS players. Wood should have been go competition, but couldn't stay consistent. Rubin's injury took him out completely. Jozy outscores Zardes by leaps on a per minute basis in MLS. We can't play players who don't exists. Consistency is hard. Longevity is hard.

    Call in Sarge and Morris and Soto and whoever we got, but if they aren't scoring more than Jozy, what do they bring? We can't play the game with the imaginary team we dream of at night. We have to play with guys we got.
     
    delandis, Magikfute and 50/50 Ball repped this.
  2. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    What can Jozy give us? I'd say bring in Sargent, Weah, Soto, Nova...all young and need experience. Can't keep relying on old talent ala Arena in '06. Gotta give the Youth a fighting chance.
     
  3. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Sure, bring 'em all for friendlies. But at this point, Jozy scores more. That's just fact. When that fact changes, ok. But till then, he's as prolific as the next choice - and is a better hold-up player than most.
     
  4. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    He scores more indeed. Especially against CONCACAF minnows. I bet you and I could as well. Well not me as my ankle is rather sore.
     
  5. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    That's just silly. We are calling in Zardes, Morris... Jozy has a better gpg rate than them in MLS and for USMNT... Again, you want to play the imaginary American Saurez' of your mind. But the real American Sarges of the physical universe are human, they miss PKs, they still aren't getting 1st team minutes.

    I'm all for calling Sarge, Soto, Nova (meh), Ledesma in, getting them game, getting them seasoned. But if you need goals today, Jozy is still the best bet. It may be a sad fact, but it's a true fact...
     
    delandis, Magikfute and superdave repped this.
  6. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    He can have the best scoring rate against Barbados or FC Cincinatti but doesn't make him the current best.
    I never said he was the American Suarez. I'm simply saying call up the young guys and get them experience. We can afford to rest Jozy until we have a real competitive match in a year.
     
  7. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    That I agree. I'm just saying, on current form and past production we still have not found a forward who consistently out-scores Jozy for club and country. Not since Dempsey really. Wood looked he might be, but whether the injury or who knows, he has lost his mojo. I'm happy to trot out every forward we got. But there's no rational way to claim that "x" striker is, on current form for club and country, clearly more effective than Jozy. That's all.
     
    Magikfute and LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  8. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Okay, very well sir.
     
    freisland repped this.
  9. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You must not remember the nail biters against minnows. Even the easy ones aren't easy.

    https://www.sbnation.com/2014-world...inal-score-match-report-result-2014-world-cup
     
  10. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The whole team scores less against good teams. No reason to single out Jozy. Our midfield tends to get overrun, leaving our forwards stranded.

    Until the team is creating chances I'm not going to kill any forward.
     
    delandis, Magikfute and superdave repped this.
  11. sXeWesley

    sXeWesley Member+

    Jun 18, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I don’t see how anyone can sustain an argument against Jozy being our #1 right now.

    However, where every single person on either side of this debate can agree, (other than Jay’s brother and Zardes’s mom), is that the young guys like Sargent and Soto should be getting every available minute that does not go to Jozy instead of the 28 year old with the first touch of a rapist.
     
  12. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I'm even down for letting Jozy rest most non-crucial games. But until someone else starts consistently bagging goals, he's got to be at the ready... For now MLS is keeping him fit, so that's all good. And meanwhile, let's hope Sarge lights it up in the B1 and Soto gets healthy and some game, and Weah gets healthy etc. etc. etc. We could use half a dozen good striker options.
     
    50/50 Ball and sXeWesley repped this.
  13. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    A selection problem due to too many forwards will be a new day! Give me those rich people problems.

    I hope to see a day where MLS best XI guys can't get a tournament.
     
  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    I don’t see how anyone can sustain an argument for Jozy being our #1 right now. His competitive match record against decent sides doesn't support the argument for continuing with him as the #1. MLS isn't international soccer, especially at the Hex level and above.

    Jozy hasn't been consistently banging in goals at international level.

    He scores more as he has been getting caps. Zardes scores more, too.
     
  15. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1840 50/50 Ball, Sep 13, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    You are talking in circles. His scoring record for club and country is good.

    Who do you prefer in a must win tommorow?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_men's_international_soccer_players

    And 15 assists without being the corner kick taker.
     
  16. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    #1841 freisland, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
    Ok. Show us the stats. Who is better?

    Zardes g/90 is .47 and includes 2 pk. Jozy is .65. And Jozy has more assists. Zardes does not score at a better rate.

    2018. Zardes .58 g/90. Altidore .72. Jozy more assists. Zardes 3/4 PKs. Jozy 2/2
    2017 Zardes .09 g/90 Jozy .62 g/90...

    I mean, it's laughable... That's as much BS as Jozy's "weight..."
     
    superdave and Magikfute repped this.
  17. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    For the US, Zardes has what - 10 goals in 50, 51 games? Jozy has 42 in 115 or something?

    Do the math. It's not even close. It's a joke...
     
    Editor In Chimp repped this.
  18. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Depends on the level of the comp. Against a decent opponent, any sane decision maker would take their chances with Sargent or Morris. Why? Altidore is a proven non-performer at Hex level and above. In most industries, older non-performers get moved out to give up and coming talent an opportunity.

    Zardes vs Jozy? LOL. None of the above is the obvious answer.
     
  19. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    I keep giving chances and chances to Josh Sargent. He's looking like the future, but he hasn't actually done it yet. There's zero actual evidence that Josh Sargent is capable of scoring against good national teams either. His goals so far have been against a horrific Bolivia team and a shockingly poor Peru team (bad on the night anyway). But if we're going to go with a veteran in the rotation, Altidore is the choice.

    People keep acting like USMNT coaches have been ignoring the American version of David Villa. Like we've had Zlatan Ibrahimovic sitting at home waiting for a callup. Since 2010, Jozy Altidore has been our best choice by a wide margin.

    People say Jozy Altidore didn't score against competition X or opponent Y...…………...as if we had any other forwards that did. Folks! We were picking Jozy Altidore over Chris Wondolowski last cycle. And the hideously inconsistent Bobby Wood (who Hamburg couldn't give away this past off-season). And the always injured Aron Johannsson.

    [There was a really brief period there when Charlie Davies was developing. But he played best as a partnership with Jozy not instead of Jozy. And then we know about his accident.]

    But the statistics state that Jozy Altidore has a muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch higher goals/game rate for the USMNT than just about anybody else. The players in modern USMNT history with a better goals/game rate than Jozy Altidore are Clint Dempsey and Christian Pulisic. That's it. So don't frickin' insult my intelligence by saying Altidore and Zardes are the same thing. I have eyeballs. Its not been even close. Not even in the same ballpark.

    By the way, just a trivia question for folks: Where does Jozy Altidore rank all-time in WCQing goals. I await your responses. He was after all, our leading scorer in WCQers during the 2018 and 2010 cycle. And our 2nd leading scorer in the 2014 WCQers (behind only Dempsey). Was I the only one watch the hex in 2014 when he scored the game winning goals against Honduras and Panama? Was I the only one watching the WCQers against Jamaica? He scored both at home and on the road against them.

    Nobody, and I mean nobody, think Jozy Altidore is an elite international caliber forward. But he's been the best we've had until now. Will Sargent eclipse him? That's what we're aallllllllllllllll hoping for. But let's not discredit his contribution to the national team over the last decade. Let's not behave like he's been a bad player for us.

    Altidore versus Zardes? Is this a real-life question?
    [​IMG]
     
    50/50 Ball repped this.
  20. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Oki, J-pan
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I absolutely agree but I don't think anybody is calling for Zardes over Jozy.
     
  21. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    We know for a fact that Altidore has an abysmal record in such regards. Do you go with a known
    non-performer? Do you give someone else a chance? How do most industries work? Sargent already has more goals in the B1 than Altidore had in 3000 minutes of EPL play.

    The problem is people act like Jozy is David Villa or Ibrahimovic. Untouchable!

    Based on friendly goals, MLS goals, and goals against Trinidad(except when we really needed them

    These are the all-time, top international goal-scorers. Ali Daei, Kunishige Kamamoto, Godfrey Chitalu, Hussein Saeed, Bashar Abdullah. A list of veritable footballing genius.

    So Altidore is the Godfrey Chitalu of US Soccer? It's an insult to one's intelligence to even group Jozy with those other two in such a manner. And why is Zardes even in the conversation? What is the source of this pathological obsession with the man?
     
  22. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    @IndividualEleven just did... Claims stats show Zardes is better... (shruggie)
     
  23. VBCity72

    VBCity72 Member+

    Aug 17, 2014
    Oki, J-pan
    Club:
    Plymouth Argyle FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I went back and read a bit because I skimmed most of it. He said Jozy scores more because he plays on the team more then Sargent and then mentioned that Zardes does too because he also plays more than Sargent. It was never about Jozy vs Zardes but that they both had better scoring records than Sargent because GGG doesn't play him. That's what I got out of it but maybe i'm wrong.
     
  24. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Perhaps. It's hard to figure what the guy is actually arguing. "Zardes scores more..." "Jozy needed to lose weight..." "Sargent..." Who knows?

    The simple fact remains - on a statistical basis there is no active US player who scores more consistently for club and country. I hope we get 10 that do in the near future, but at the moment, if you are simply making your choice by current and past performance for club and country, Jozy is the guy.
     
    50/50 Ball and VBCity72 repped this.
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s always entertaining when That Guy with an obsession for or against a player gets involved in a thread.

    This one isn’t as fun as Giggsy talking about Akele, so dude, up your game.
     

Share This Page