Mr. Josmer Volmy Altidore

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by 50/50 Ball, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You may get a couple of World Cup goals still. A dozen Gold Cup seems a stretch.
     
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  2. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was good,if he had better teammates, you would appreciate it more.
     
  3. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    I understand that holdup play id somewhat important. But it should be a nice to have.
    But American soccer commentators are obsessed with it. They write erotic fiction about Altidore's skill at it. And the reason it's so overblown is that we have zero quality goal scorers outside of minnow-y level.
     
  4. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Jozy is basically the US team in a nutshell. He's got some ability, he can be effective, he's quite solid and on his game is very good at a level just below top tier. But, when faced with the big time, he comes up just a little short in every area. He's close enough that he'll do good things against top teams now and then, but regularly and consistently, he will be found lacking that final bit of quality when compared to truly top players. So yeah, he's not the striker we want, he's the striker we deserve.
     
  5. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    He scored on better defenders repeatedly at his clubs. The idea that we are having a referendum on one shot that was a foot wide is ridiculous. He played Pulisic in for a great chance and would have had a tap with a return ball.

    If Jozy missing a shot is a distillation of his career, what about CP missing the shot and the pass? Stuff happens. Scoring goals is hard.
     
  6. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Where did he score repeatedly against better players? He had what 2-3 goals in two years in the Premier League? When else did he play repeatedly against top class defenses better than what Mexico had out there? He scores plenty against teams just shy of top class and occasionally against those who are top class.

    I still think Jozy is our best striker, but we do not have a top class striker. If you think Jozy is it, we disagree.
     
  7. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1582 50/50 Ball, Jul 9, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019

    Last year in CCL, it's discussed in this very thread. He scored in the last three rounds of the tournament against the best clubs in Mexico.

    Also, he scored on basically everybody in Holland in 12/13 including the winner against PSV in the cup final and 5 against league winning Ajax in 3 games.
     
  8. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Just so I'm clear, you do consider Jozy an absolute top notch striker and we have no need for a replacement to become a better team against top quality international opponents? If you mean something else, I sure can't figure it out because I said he was just below that level.
     
  9. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No. I consider him a very good striker who people poor mouth all the time.

    If he was top notch, the MLS couldn't afford him at 29.

    There is a huge difference between not great and bum. People often nit pick him in ways that they don't do to their pets. To me he's the exact same player if CP cuts the ball back and he rolled it in but the perception would be different to many fair weather supporters.
     
  10. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    Exactly. Not sure where you were disagreeing to be honest. He's a good, not great striker on a good but not great national team.
     
  11. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I only disagree with the idea that he consistently comes up short. The evidence is otherwise. He has as scored an arguably unsustainable amount of goals in big club games. I don't think he gets worse for the USMNT.
     
  12. nobody

    nobody Member+

    Jun 20, 2000
    He comes up exactly to the level of the national team, that was the point, but now we're arguing over nothing.
     
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  13. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that's what you mean, that's fair. Jozy to me is a Robin/Cato/Pippen, a very dangerous #2.
     
  14. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    It's always been an UPHILL battle for US strikers when scoring at World Cups. Though they don't exactly score loads at Gold Cups either.
     
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  15. manq360

    manq360 Member

    Jun 17, 2009
    Portland, OR
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My concern, and nobody has mentioned, is that several times during the first half of Mexico game Jozy knelt down on the field. I wondered at the time, but nobody, announcers or fans mentioned it. I am pretty sure it was him (don't have big screen). I think he is pretty out of shape. We need a 90-minute striker. If he isn't, then he should not be called in or used, at best, as a sub like he was a couple of times. As far as no one challenging him, that may or may not be true. It appears that the coach, in all his wisdom, has decided that Jozy and Zardes are his forwards and no one else need apply. This is why we still have Bradley, when he clearly is past his prime...and there are other players to replace him. I am hoping now that the Gold Cup is over with a loss, GGG finally understands the value of calling in other than his favorites and truly considers Euro players. He will be forced to in some respects, such as Pulisic, Adams, and McKennie; but, I am sure there are others that have been neglected.
     
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  16. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He said he was fine. I bet he plays 90 or close for TFC this week.
     
  17. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    60 minute Jozy> 90 minute Zardes

    Maybe Sargent or Weah will surpass and displace Jozy in year, but as of right now it hasn't happened. So he continues to be the first choice forward. It's not complicated.
     
  18. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We don't really have evidence that he isn't 90 minute fit. Gregg said he was fit. Jozy said he's fit.

     
  19. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    https://sports.yahoo.com/usmnt-gold-cup-2019-takeaways-pulisic-berhalter-084439845.html

    9. So ... the striker position
    The most puzzling aspect of the entire month was Berhalter’s management of his striker rotation. Altidore is, to almost anyone with a lick of soccer knowledge, easily the best American at the position. He’s the team’s second-best playmaker. His hold-up play is vital. And yet ... he only got more than 65 minutes once all tournament – in the meaningless final group match against Panama, with the reserves.

    There were rumblings early on about fitness, but Altidore played 90 minutes for Toronto FC before arriving at U.S. camp last month. Berhalter eventually confirmed that Altidore was “exactly where we need him to be,” and had “been ready to play.”

    OK, so load management, then?

    After the final, Altidore stopped to chat with print/online media for the first time all tournament. Presuming he’d had discussions with Berhalter about load management, I asked him: “What went into the way that your minutes and playing time were managed throughout the tournament?”

    His reply: “I don’t know.”


    In response to a follow-up, he confirmed he was fit.

    So ... we have absolutely no idea what Berhalter thinks of his striker rotation going forward. I asked Berhalter ahead of the quarterfinal whether Altidore was his No. 1 striker if fully match-fit. He gave a non-committal answer. If I had to pick my biggest criticism of Berhalter at his first official competition, his management of Altidore would be it.

    Even if he was saving Altidore for the semifinal and final, he didn’t give Altidore a chance to build up his match fitness. Or, he yanked a gas-tank-still-full Altidore in the 64th minute of a tie game. Or he doesn’t rate Altidore significantly ahead of Zardes. Either way, he was or is wrong.
     
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  20. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  21. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's an uphill battle for ANY player to score at the World Cup. Americans have taken it for granted, with Dempsey and Donovan having 9 WC goals between them -- an amazing feat really. Donovan's 5 WC goals are the best CONCACAF history. It puts him on par with Romario, Zidane, Platini, and Higuain. Ronaldo only surpassed Donovan's tally in the last WC. We've had a pretty charmed era; some have taken it for granted considering many consider Donovan to have been a flop or underachiever. The grind of the season and big gameday moments of international knockout tournaments are two different beasts.

    If the US was going to win that GC final, it was going to be early in the 1st half when we had the better of the run of play. Yes, I've seen better players miss easier chances, but for this game for the US to have a chance to win, Jozy needed to tuck that away. And ultimately that's how he'll be remembered: never got over the hump in big international games.
     
  22. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Let's not go too gung-ho. Dempsey had 10 WC games white Donovan has 12 (of which he started in every match).
     
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  23. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not writing his soccer obituary just yet. He may have a few big goals left in him. He's only 29.
     
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  24. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brian McBride's run at Fulham didn't begin until he was 32 years old. He lead Fulham with 12 goals at age 34. He was still starting WC games for the USA in 2006 at age 34.

    No guarantees that Jozy will be effective as a 30-something, but we have seen it before. I agree -- don't write the obit yet.

    I bet he plays most if not all of the 2022 Cup cycle for the US, at least as a late-game sub. Could be a valuable role.
     
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  25. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    That's so true. But don't most folks contend that McBride played far better once he was in his 30s? Jozy has def peaked. He's been a pro for like 12 years and his best performances are behind him. I don't see him emulating McBride.
     
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