Moving Forward From the Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I think Fox tries to latch onto names and human interest stories, like they do all around. Fox doesn't have the MLS contract, so I have no idea why they'd care.

    Of course MLS Soccer is going to have an MLS focus. That's not a conspiracy; it's literally the focus of their website. But they are suprisingly criticial of MLS players in the national team -- much more than you'd think. You guys tend to go crazy over Bobby Warshaw clips but miss many of the rest.

    Your big issue is Bradley, I know. I don't love the guy's game, but when every coach he's ever had, and every major media person -- and not just the ones at MLS Soccer -- seems to think he's more valuable than the average fan ... I think occam's razor actually points to maybe the fanbase not understanding everything instead of some grand conspiracy.

    I just don't know what everyone is getting out of Michael Bradley's continued US Soccer career that would justify the effort that people think they are going through.

    There are real conspriacies. There's usually millions at stake for those that perpetrate them.
     
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  2. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    No.

    But I've seen enough bad Best XIs to chalk that up to some random intern at CONCACAF.
     
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  3. footer20

    footer20 Member

    Jun 9, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I think if the Mexico game showed us anything other than that no one outside of Jozy can hold up play is that the current formation doesn't have enough numbers in the midfield defensively. So yes, I'm all for Pomykal coming into this midfield as a dual 8 with McKennie and slotting Pulisic onto the wing as an inverted winger. In the end, it really is all about how we can get the ball on his feet as much as possible.

    As for the integration of other U20s and Olympic guys, I don't think its too critical but I would use September as a means to integrate more of the Euro's into the expected system. The pool is getting deeper. Take advantage of it.

    I'd go with something like this for September:

    GK: Steffen, Horvath, Johnson
    DEF: Cannon, Yedlin, Brooks, Miazga, Long, CCV, Ream, A. Robinson
    MID: Adams, Bradley, McKennie, Pomykal, Holmes, Lletget
    FWD: Pulisic, Weah, Arriola, Boyd, Altidore, Sargent.

    Nothing too crazy.

    Assuming we go with a complete domestic Olympic Qualifying team, I'd expect something along the lines of this for qualifying:

    GK: Marcinkowski, Ochoa, Vom Steeg
    DEF: Cannon, Araujo, Glad, M. Robinson, Trusty, McKenzie, Herrera, Acosta (or Farfan)
    MID: Servania, Sands, Pomykal, Yuiell, Parks, Aaaronson, Mihailovic, Saucedo
    FWD: Lewis, Ferreira, Ebobisse, Rennicks

    May not be the strongest team but it should get us there and that way, you could integrate some more of the EURO youth for October, along the lines of this:

    GK: Stefeen, Horvath, Johnson
    DEF: Yedlin, Dest, Brooks, Miazga, Long, Zimmerman, A. Robinson, Gloster
    MID: Adams, Bradley, McKennie, Holmes, Lletget
    FWD: pulisic, Arriola, Weah, Boyd, Amon, Altidore, Sargent

    I'd be open to any of Soto, Ledezma, Mendez, Llanez, etc. instead of Amon or a retread here as well depending on how the next few months shake up. it's not critical to me to get rid of Bradley, Altidore, or even a Morris but let's learn from Zardes, Roldan, Lovitz, etc.

    I apologize for the long winded response but this is an opportunity for Greg. He just got an opportunity to put 50 something odd guys through training for a bit, take 23 to a competitive tournament, and learn from it. The cycle essentially starts now.
     
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  4. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Adams was paired with Kampl intentionally, and so Kampl takes the vast majority of offensively responsibility in that duo.

    It's not that Adams can't do things -- he absolutely can. It's not that McKennie can't -- we've seen he can.

    It's just that when paired together -- and we've seen this under Sarachan -- I don't think just the two of them can consistently get the ball forward. They will at times, but they will fail at a high enough rate that it won't be a good offense.

    On the other hand, they will recover the ball a lot faster. But they aren't consistent enough offensively to move the ball from defense to offense yet.

    Perhaps they will get there. Perhaps they need a third midfielder or other help.

    I'm not saying we should play Bradley over Adams ... I'm saying that I don't think a dual midfield of Adams and McKennie will be very good at getting the ball from defense to offense.

    They would be much better at generating counterattack opportunities and playing defense.
     
  5. footer20

    footer20 Member

    Jun 9, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    I should note that if possible, I'd get the Euro's not named Adams, McKennie, Sargent, and Weah here.

    That is, CCV, EPB, A. Robinson, Gloster, Soto, Mendez, Ledezma, Llanez.

    Each one of these guys outside of potentially the left backs would be more of use here than a League of Nations runout, unless you're really worried about cap tying situations.
     
  6. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He presses a defense, shoots well off the dribble cutting in from his left, and can combine. I think he's pigeon-holed at cf because of his height, but he doesn't fit the mold of a tall cf. Better with his feet than in the air, can be pushed off the ball in post-ups, but quite fast, and nimble. Weah would probably take over that spot with seasoning though. He's still only 19 and hasn't been a regular starter anywhere. That lineup is already quite light on experience/maturity.

    I think he could stay high in this formation and not have to defend deep because you have 3 rangy, capable cm's defensively and Lima who can handle himself mono-e-mono in behind. So he'd be a wing-forward essentially. His attributes fit that spot more than Morris, who plays it due to circumstance, and difference in height.

    Another less avant-garde idea I have would be to employ EPB as a d-mid where he won the CCAFship u20 MVP. He's used by all his clubs as a cb, but he has a mental lapse or two per game that burns them, and his size is mediocre. At stay at home 6 he can pass sufficiently to the next station, while his range/ball-winning unlocks the ability of the fb's and other cm's to get fw. For that, Adams would move to right (wing)back, with McKennie and Pomykal occupying the other two spots inside. But the midfield overall would be terrors and Adams' offense would have more impact out wide.
     
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  7. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    danny acosta was on honduras' gold cup squad- i didnt pay attention to them enough to see if he was capped, but on an official sr roster means hed have to switch (back) to us right? i def dont think hed be eligible for a us youth team now.

    is ferreira us eligible?
     
  8. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fox does have a contract with MLS.
     
  9. footer20

    footer20 Member

    Jun 9, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Thought I saw him pull out of their squad and decline the one time switch so I'd assume he'd want to be a part of the Olympic cycle.

    And Ferreira isn't eligible yet but Sciaretta is very confident he will be come qualifying.
     
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  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    There you go. Have to force the issue with Pulisic on letting the ball go. It's time.
     
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  11. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He is the most expensive player in MLS.
     
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  12. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    the name has more pull than the game on the pitch. Sadly.
     
  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019

    I wouldn't worry about that last point.

    The highest MLS transfer fee so far is $17M, I think.

    • Pulisic is well out of the price range and has been clear about wanting to stay in Europe.
    • I know Adams went for less, but that wasn't a real transfer, If he's as good as everyone thinks, he's also out of their price range. And RB has his rights, so that also seems unlikely.
    • I suppose someone could afford McKennie, maybe? He does not seem like the type to want to come now. But I still think he gets $30M.
    • Brooks just went for close to $30M, right? I suppose as he ages, he's a target... but MLS doesn't pay for defenders and Brooks has never lived in the US

    Basically, I doubt that we see any of them until they are well on the downswing.
     
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  14. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Does it? It can't be much. I feel like all the games are on ESPN or ESPN+.
     
  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Apparently Honduras screwed up his paperwork and never submitted it.
     
  16. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    He's not anymore. And he's far from the most marketable.

    He's not a cornerstone of their marketing in any way. Zlatan and Vela and Pity Martinez and lots of other players are.

    Instead of sending him to an American city, they put him and Jozy on Toronto. MLS is accused of rigging where Jermaine Jones went ... but then they took this cornerstone of marketing because he's a USMNT player and put him in ... Canada? Who are the ad geniuses who came up with that one?

    He didn't make a 26-man All Star roster this year (which includes 11 midfielders!). Paxton Pomykal did -- and he was a commissioner's selection, over Michael Bradley. If Don Garber is selecting the USMNT team, why wasn't All-Star Paxton Pomykal there? Why was Reggie Cannon a late selection?

    Maybe once upon a time Michael Bradley was a marketing asset. But he's not anymore. Soccer social media HATES him -- why would MLS even want that association at this point? Why not play up the youth movement MLS is making -- I'd be trumpeting that if you are a USMNT fan, you should watch and wait for the next Tyler Adams! To see Aaron Long and Paxton Pomykal and Reggie Cannon.

    Bradley and to a lesser extent, Jozy Altidore, are marketing problems.

    People need to decide whether SUM/MLS are competent schemers or not.

    They seem competent to me in their marketing and business acumen. I work in Sales and Marketing at a Fortune 500 company, and literally nothing makes sense to me about MLS pushing Michael Bradley onto the USMNT as a marketing tool.

    Maybe some of the Board of Directors not named Garber love the Bradleys. I don't know. Maybe that's it. I can see misguided personal belief.

    Don Gaber is WAAAY too good at his job to believe that Michael Bradley on the USMNT helps his league's perception right now.
     
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  17. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The contract is split between the 2 networks.
     
  18. dougtee

    dougtee Member+

    Feb 7, 2007
    the crowds truly only come to see the 1 times out of 8 michael bradley connects on one of those long, looping diagonal switches that so drive the fans wild
     
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  19. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Fire Crown 4 Life (or until they change it again)
    Jan 9, 2004
    Soldier Field Media Deck. First Row.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Brooks I could see, but not in the next couple years. If he's chronically injured I could see Wolfburg dumping him on the cheap, but that's not really a Brooks-specific thing.
     
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  20. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    McKennie and Adams have never played as a double pivot under any coach at any level. Adams has never played the #6 with McKennie on the field. He has played as an 8, a RW, and a RB.

    McKennie has never played as a #6 with Adams on the field.

    So, we have never seen it. Maybe that is because our coaches just know it won't work. Or maybe because they felt Trapp or Bradley had to be there. For me, I would at least try it. But I think I would leave McKennie further forward where he can make the plays he made against Jamaica. Holmes or Pomykal can link Adams to the offense. Pretty sure that is Pomykal's strong suit.
     
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  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I thought they were both together once or twice under Sarachan. I guess I'm wrong.

    I do think they'd struggle without help. I think both Holmes or Pomykal could help a lot -- and I'd like to see something like that.

    I am not a fan of running out a 442 with them in CM or something like that.
     
  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    No, I think to get three of them on the field you need to move Pulisic. This is probably the big question for GB. Could be made even more interesting if Pulisic is play CAM for Chelsea. That is an early camp rumor.

    We have not looked good in a 4-4-2 in a decade, I'm with you on that. Maybe McKennie sits and Adams and Holmes are just that much better than Bradley and McKennie that it works. GB has some things to chew on. Some Friendlies against tough opponents coming up in September!
     
  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I was thinking more in terms of USSFMLS supporting those who put up a lot of dough to promote the league.
     
  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I actually like Pulisic as a CAM, but if moving him to the wing gives us a 3 man midfield of high quality, two way players, you have to do it. It can create some issues defensively -- I'd like his FB to be someone very capable (so maybe he plays on the right?).

    I think Adams ends up as the 6, but it's this line of thought that makes me understand why Berhalter wanted to use him as a RB/CM. Even if that didn't end up working (and I don't know if we will ever try it again), I think the reasoning was fundamentally to create that extra man in the midfield.
     
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  25. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    I would still like to see a 4-4-2.
    Maybe Adams-Holmes-McKennie-Pulisic could make that work in midfield.
     

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