Once the MLS 1.0 teams finally come into the 21st century, and the majority of MNT prospects aren't developed/played at a handful of clubs, MLS will be pretty nice. I like the additions of Nashville and Cincy, and I like the continued expansion, along with the continued support of USL. I just hope someone helps push the laggards (NE, CHI, CLB) to improve their situations. MN and DC at least have stadiums in the works.
There's also those with this idea that MLS should be subservient to and a farm league who's primary purpose should be to develop players for USMNT. When what it should be is what it is, An independent soccer league for USA/Canada for profit by the owners and domestic entertainment for the fans that choose to follow it, and American soccer snobs who only watch foreign leagues because MLS isn't up to their lofty standards, only delays MLS from becoming what they want it to be.
There are two main reasons why people talk about a "farm league", or to put it another way, a "selling league". 1. MLS is heavily involved with our soccer federation. So they should have a significant interest in developing American talent. Doesn't mean they can't develop foreign talent, just that they're going to be looked at through the lens of how they're developing American talent moreso than foreign talent. 2. MLS is not a "Big 4" or "Big 5" league. The leagues in Europe that are a "step down" from those top leagues are all "selling leagues". So, the assumption is, if MLS is going to be a top league, they will need to be a selling league first...
To me, all it has to be is AMERICA'S SOCCER LEAGUE, a domestic league for public consumption. We should have a "major league" for US that plays in our cities and our time zones, it doesn't have to be the best in the world, it's arrogant to think we have to be best at everything.
Home grown players signed by MLS teams since 2017 2017 Andrew Carleton Atlanta United FC 2017 Chris Goslin Atlanta United FC 2018 George Bello Atlanta United FC 2018 Lagos Kunga Atlanta United FC 2018 Patrick Okonkwo Atlanta United FC 2017 Djordje Mihailovic Chicago Fire 2018 Grant Lillard Chicago Fire 2017 Kortne Ford Colorado Rapids 2017 Ricardo Perez Colorado Rapids 2018 Sam Vines Colorado Rapids 2017 Alex Crognale Columbus Crew SC 2017 Ian Harkes D.C. United 2017 Jesus Ferreira FC Dallas 2017 Bryan Reynolds FC Dallas 2017 Reggie Cannon FC Dallas 2018 Brandon Servania FC Dallas 2018 Kris Reaves FC Dallas 2018 Jordan Cano FC Dallas 2018 Chris Richards FC Dallas 2017 Memo Rodriguez Houston Dynamo 2017 Hugo Arellano LA Galaxy 2018 Efrain Alvarez LA Galaxy 2017 Louis Béland-Goyette Montreal Impact 2018 Thomas Meilleur-Giguère Montreal Impact 2018 James Pantemis Montreal Impact 2018 Jason Beaulieu Montreal Impact 2018 Isaac Angking New England Revolution 2017 James Sands New York City FC 2018 Joe Scally New York City FC 2017 Evan Louro New York Red Bulls 2018 Kevin Politz New York Red Bulls 2018 Ben Mines New York Red Bulls 2018 Cam Lindley Orlando City 2017 Adam Najem Philadelphia Union 2018 Anthony Fontana Philadelphia Union 2018 Matthew Real Philadelphia Union 2018 Mark McKenzie Philadelphia Union 2017 Marco Farfan Portland Timbers 2018 Foster Langsdorf Portland Timbers 2018 Eryk Williamson Portland Timbers 2017 José Hernández Real Salt Lake 2018 Aaron Herrera Real Salt Lake 2018 Corey Baird Real Salt Lake 2017 Nick Lima San Jose Earthquakes 2018 JT Marcinkowski San Jose Earthquakes 2018 Jacob Akanyirige San Jose Earthquakes 2018 Gilbert Fuentes San Jose Earthquakes 2017 Seyi Adekoya Seattle Sounders FC 2017 Henry Wingo Seattle Sounders FC 2018 Handwalla Bwana Seattle Sounders FC 2017 Gianluca Busio Sporting Kansas City 2018 Jaylin Lindsey Sporting Kansas City 2018 Matt Lewis Sporting Kansas City 2018 Wan Kuzain Sporting Kansas City 2017 Ben Spencer Toronto FC 2018 Ayo Akinola Toronto FC 2018 Liam Fraser Toronto FC 2018 David Norman Jr. Vancouver Whitecaps FC 2018 Sean Melvin Vancouver Whitecaps FC 2018 Simon Colyn Vancouver Whitecaps FC That compares to a handful per year prior to 2016.
I know you know this, but for the benefit of the younger generation, in 94/95, the USMNT was basically a club team. One of the reasons that a) they were able to play better than the sum of their parts and b) why so many guys from that era went over 100 caps (with a couple more on the verge...I think Lalas had 98 or some such, which is one reason why he's a bit bitter about not seeing the field in France '98). The ladies took that to an even higher extreme, hence the video game-like cap numbers for the Old Guard.
Yup. In fact a number of our USMNT players in that era were under contract to the USSF as if it were a club team. Clubs had to pay transfer fees to the USSF! By the time the Copa America in 1995 rolled around, only Mike Burns was under contract with the USSF. Now consider that his team below (click to expand) beat Argentina 3-0 at Copa America 1995. Arguably one of the top 5 results in USMNT history, and we never talk about it. It wasn't the most loaded Argentina team you'll ever see, but it was Argentina with Batistuta, Simeone, Zanetti, Gallardo, Ortega, Ayala, etc. etc. We had no business beating them. We did because regardless of individual quality back then, the team always seemed to play better than the sum of its parts. Part of the reason for that is as you say....................we were a club team. Even after we were a club team the pool of players was exceedingly shallow.
Everyone knows MLS teams sign plenty of players to HGP contracts. It's a great way to pay not very much for a potentially good player. But how many do they sign end up actually making it to the first team? FCD isn't necessarily a "good" development team because it has signed the most HGP's of any team (24 in total I think). They're a good development team because they've given those HGP's lots of time with the first team. On the other side of the coin, the 5 ATL HGP's have barely played. A breakdown of HGP MLS minutes played skews those numbers to a small, disparate, group of teams.
They play regularly for AU2. Surely you don't expect 16 and 17 year-olds to go straight into the first team. As of January 2018, former Man City academy players had had a combined 7 minutes of first team action. And how many college players make NFL? Less than 1.5% I would think. Many of the 2017 MLS crop are familiar to MLS fans, such as Nick Lima and Marco Farfan. Not all will make it though. The minimum salary for a reserve or supplementary roster player is higher than the national average household income. I'm sure it's plenty enough for a 17 or 18 year-old single guy to live off.
Surely you don't think a team is good at developing players if the HGP's it signs never play for them? ATL is simply the team with a bunch of HGP's that I know don't play in MLS. I am reasonably certain that, over a longer timespan than your weird 2-year cutoff, you'd find teams that are good, and teams that are bad at playing HGP's. It's simply illustrative of my point. What the heck does the NFL, a niche sport, have to do with this? Obviously, most prospects in any sport don't pan out for various reasons. Where did I claim otherwise, and what are you on about? Players not featuring for a giant mega-club isn't necessarily an indictment of their talent evaluation. It's infinitely more difficult to start for Man City than it is for Colorado. The grey area comes in with: If HGP's lack playing time, how much is "lack of talent" the issue, and how much of it is a paucity of opportunities, particularly if some of these players go on to have roles in better teams? I made no value judgement of the HGP contract vis a vis the players themselves. I merely correctly pointed out that HGP players are paid lower on average than other players in the league. It's after they prove themselves that they get more money. For example, McKennie was offered 200K, which would've been the highest HGP salary ever, but one that pales in comparison to many players, particularly DP's. Most of the HGP contracts are at or around the league minimum.
It may take 2, 3, 4, 5 years to become a first team regular and many will never make it. This is consistent with other leagues. Only the creme de la creme, like Adams and Davies will be in the first team at 16 or 17. If MLS academies produce 2 or 3 US international class players a year then they're doing OK. How many international teams have 3 19 year-old international class players in midfield? Add Carleton on the left when he matures and you have a group of players who'll still be at their peak when the 2030 World Cup qualifying cycle starts. Hopefully the academies can produce some high quality defenders and strikers sometime soon.
If MLS academies produced 2 or 3 international class US players every year, we wouldn't have failed to qualify for the World Cup this cycle... Hence the consternation that, when an MLS team has an opportunity to nurture a top US youth prospect (Carleton), if they fail to do so, this will only push more kids to Europe, which may dishearten MLS teams from investing in youth talent. Sargent, McKennie, Haji Wright, Pulisic, Keaton Parks, et al. Lots of top prospects go overseas. In theory, they should be better-positioned to be getting playing time for an MLS team and stay home, particularly if the MLS teams are doing their jobs and scouting talent well.
But the MLS Academy program only stayed to produce a significant number of pro players in 2016'and already we've had Adams, McKennie, Carleton and Hajj Wright among others.
...No? http://www.ussoccerda.com/2017-boys-u-15-17-19-club-map You're welcome to look it up, but FCD joined the USSDA in the 2008-09 season. For example. https://www.fcdallas.com/youth/academy Your arbitrary cuttoff remains arbitrary. 10 years, and a paucity of international talent, sounds about right.
You're right. MLS should fold. It's worthless. We should have a league more like Serie A. Oh, wait. OK, let's have an Eredivisie. Damn. What does Ghana have? Oops. Chile must have something great -- D'OH! And then, we could dominate every tournament like Germany -- 0-1? Never mind. We should be like Argentina. Those guys... ah, shame. You fools sound like Trump. "We're going to get rid of MLS, and replace it with something terrific!!" It's a hell of a lot easier to say than it is to do. And the people screaming it are the ones who know the least about it, naturally.
Yes because Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Montreal, NYCFC, Orlando, Minnesota and LAFC had such great academies in 2008/09. RSL have recently opened a $78 million academy/training center, SKC a $60 million facility. NYCFC have both spent around $40 million and according to a source on these boards the Red Bulls are spending $20 million a year. LAFC have committed $30 million to a development at Cal State. Often these facilities include high schools. A Galaxy academy player with train from 9-12, have lunch then head off to the classroom. This level of investment hasn't happened at most clubs until recently.
Did you read the thread? Seriously, did you? Because everyone laughed at the OP and said he was crazy. And here you are 3 pages later generalizing as if anyone aside from the OP even entertained the thought of MLS "folding"...
I’m the reason the OP has a yellow card. I’m well aware. I’m just throwing more dirt on his idea’s grave.
Academy graduates played 33% of total minutes for New York Red Bulls as of week 5. Current players- Adams, Davis, Duncan, Etienne Lade, Mines, Muyl Former players - Miazga (Chelsea), Olosunde (Man Utd), Weah (briefly: PSG), Basuljevic (Fremad Amager) Other MLS clubs - Agudelo, Toye Pre-academy - Howard, Bradley, Altidore https://www.prosoccerusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/mls-academy-wk-5.jpg Full article https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/mls-top-academies-and-the-players-who-make-them/ Remember that the MLS development project is in-progress with the Red Bulls + Dallas, Philly and RSL the most advanced.
You forgot Atlanta by the way. And in case you didn't know, that would still leave 14 teams 10 or more years, and 9 teams 10 or less years. MLS has been a league since 1996. A lot of the early MLS players went on to have great careers with the National Team (e.g Pope, Donovan, Dempsey, etc.). The rest of CONCACAF has been able to use MLS to catch up with us in terms of talent, meanwhile the players who come back from Europe stagnate, and there seems to be very little American talent on many teams, particularly at the crucial forward/attacking midfielder/winger positions. The lack of talent at those positions has largely been due to MLS teams purchasing highly-priced and talented foreign players. And as a result, it has failed to duplicate a Donovan or Dempsey-like player. The "we're spending money" argument is exactly the sort of line that the USSF has used, and we all know where that led us. It's not about spending money as much as it is about results and where you're spending it. Training facilities are great, and investing in training infrastructure is important. But I would much rather see MLS teams across the board develop their coaches and scouting networks. Teams like Sporting Kansas City and RSL have gone to great lengths to invest time and money into their scouting networks. SKC has set up affiliates across the midwest, while RSL has a highly-publicized and highly effective network in neighboring Arizona. In addition, and I think it's important, these investments have led directly to conscious front office and managerial decisions to play in-house talent. The crucial reality is, the success of MLS development academies has not been uniform in the slightest. So, while RSL squeezes water out of stone, LAG flails in a rich market dripping with talent. The question becomes, and this has been mentioned ad nauseum by myself and others in multiple threads, are there ways to incentivize the MLS development laggards to do better? Throwing around large amounts of money and waiting doesn't seem like the optimal situation for either the teams, or the USMNT pool.
I'm assuming New England being where they are is due to Fagundez and Caldwell? Those two have been on the Revs for a long time now. I'd be more impressed if New England had been giving minutes to other HGP's outside of those two.
Do you think MLS teams magicked up coaches, scouts, training facilities and local youth teams overnight? Up until a few years ago the draft was the main source of players. Now it's almost an irrelevance. The recent USA roster included 12 HGPs. If you go back to the 2014 World Cup squad I think there was one (Yedlin). Yes, that was a bit of a golden era (other than the 1998 and 2006 World Cups), especially for goalkeeper. But not that many outfield players had significant playing time in the top 5 leagues. That's happened globally. Smaller and third-world countries used to be cannon fodder for UEFA and South American teams but you rarely see smaller countries losing by 5 or 6 goals anymore. ...meanwhile the players who come back from Europe stagnate, and there seems to be very little American talent on many teams, particularly at the crucial forward/attacking midfielder/winger positions. The lack of talent at those positions has largely been due to MLS teams purchasing highly-priced and talented foreign players. And as a result, it has failed to duplicate a Donovan or Dempsey-like player.[/quote] How can a lack of "talent" result from signing highly priced and talented foreign players? Talent is inherent not learned. If you look at the U17 and U20 teams there don't seem to be many MLS forwards coming through and I'm not sure why that is. In the meantime Weah, Pulisic and Sargent will have to do. There's tangible proof that teams are spending money. Look at the increasing number of home growns. If each team can produce one home-grown player Again, if players are good enough they'll get selected. I don't think the success of any team has been uniform. There are good owners willing to invest and there are the Hauptmans and Kroenkes. I think In terms of incentives, there are homegrown player subsidies, rosters have been expanded to 30 with places 29 and 30 being allocated to HGPs. In addition MLS teams will soon be able to keep 100% of the transfer fee for HGP, up from 75%. https://www.socceramerica.com/publi...ls-teams-spent-roughly-40-million-on-pla.html "FC Dallas technical director Fernando Clavijo recommends MLS has a rule that forces teams to give players raised in the USA a certain number of minutes, as used for a few years in Mexico. U.S. Soccer Federation president Sunil Gulati said guaranteeing homegrown players more experience could help the cause, but isn’t a panacea. “Over the long term you want a situation where they get through on their own, fighting for their playing time and not being given a spot,” he said." It's worth a debate but saying "MLS sucks!" is not a great starting position.