Tab, I don't think that MLS wants to sell players onto foreign leagues and I didn't think that you wanted that either. If MLS' model was to be a feeder league (e.g., the Mexico, Brazil, Argentina model) for the interim period, they need to heavily focus on developing internal talent and that is not what they are doing: quite the opposite in that they are spending the vast majority of their money around fading international stars.
Ceilings exist everywhere. The goal should be to make the MLS and US Soccer academies and young player programs so great that the quality and options here (for players "in their late teens") is a "ceiling" that is incredibly high and comparable to everywhere else in the world (and what those 'best" foreign leagues and club academies are doing for their young players).
C'mon, bsky. It's one thing to privately push players to push their boundaries and try to play a level up but there's little upside in sneering at MLS and publicly making it look bad. People here get upset when coaches speak out of the side of their mouth ("just a little better") but I think it's all part of the game and brutal honesty isn't always best. Quite frankly as TD, he should realize that the majority of our USMNT players will likely come from MLS so he should be working as hard as possible to improve the Academies - it's not like they can't use all the help they can get. It's only our elite players who should be pushed above MLS IMO.
It is not about selling players. It is about getting players to commit to and play in the league. My broadest point is that it benefit MLS when players (to start their careers, especially) don't bypass MLS. Getting a domestic player to sign their first pro contract with the domestic league is a huge goal, and a huge benefit, for MLS. They're also spending a great deal of money on developing internal talent. MLS has invested heavily in their academies and youth programs in recent years. Those aren't the headlines that people are seeing -- as people are easily distracted by the big news of MLS signs Beckham, Henry, Kaka, Dempsey, Bradley, Gerrard, etc -- , but I do think it is now incorrect to state that MLS is "spending the vast majority of their money around fading international stars."
The other coincidence is MBs drop in performance coincides with Donovan's retirement/cutting. MB is asked to take on a more attacking role now that LD is no longer around. When LD was part of the team MB played his more natural B2B position, and was not asked to do so much in the attacking 3rd..
I think we're going around in circles here. If you want MLS to be the best, then they should simply pay the Neymars, Messis and Ronaldo's more money to come over here. In fact, it's not just the top stars but rather they should look at the leading UCL contender's payroll and add [40%]. They should also double the investment amount that top teams put into academies and hire entire teams away from existing teams. What will it take to get the world's best players en masse to come here? Many of the same reasons that it's hard for US players to succeed at top programs work against MLS being a top league (which I mean to be on par with the Top 4) Simply asking our young players to play below their natural level (assuming that there are players who are better than MLS) doesn't move the needle in raising the level of play IMO.
IMO that does not explain a number of his performances but I agree that the loss of Donovan affected not only MB but the entire team.
Both Brazil and Uruguay have significant players in UCL right now so looking at what they did in the 50s/60s isn't particularly instructive in today's globalized world IMO.
It all comes down to what the players want. When a player like Giovinco was ready/available to come to MLS, MLS could afford him. Same for Beckham. And the same will be true for Ronaldo. The reality is MLS is working to become a league of choice for (all) players, and they are doing things to attract more quality players (in their prime) and they are doing things to train/create more young players and retain them. I don't think Seattle/MLS wanting to sign Morris is an example of "asking our young players to play below their natural level." (Why would I assume that there are "players who are better than MLS"? Wouldn't I want those players to actually sign with the league and show me how good they are in the league?) It is an example of the domestic league hoping and trying to sign a good player, and allowing the player to (continue to) demonstrate his (high) level of play. Having Jordan Morris in MLS would indeed raise the level of play in MLS (assuming he is more talented than the likes of Chad Barrett or Jack McInerney or Patrick Nyarko or Lamar Neagle or specifically some other young players coming out of college (this year) who didn't win the Hermann Award). Personally, I'd love to watch in 2016 to see who has the more productive season in MLS, Morris with Seattle or Altidore with TFC. I don't want to pursue the hypothetical of comparing Morris's year at Bremen with Altidore's earlier work at Villareal (or wherever). It might also be interesting for me, as a fan of MLS, to compare Morris' first season -- if it happens in 2016 -- to what a player like Dempsey was able to accomplish in MLS in his first year out of college. Those are the types of things that I, as an MLS fan, am interested in. ymmv. And I certainly don't think Morris playing in 2016 with Seattle would be him "playing below his natural level" nor would it be something that wouldn't be beneficial to the USMNT program.
Martin, By live, do you mean in person? At least here in NYC, it's actually easier and cheaper to watch UCL matches in that at least some are free on Fox broadcast TV. I'd also note that the summer tours of globally known teams have better attendance than MLS games. Secondly, I think we already have a domestic league that is better than "decent" and one that will become even stronger. Conversely, the risks in trying to disrupt the global soccer model by challenging the Big 4 is substantive (we will have to overpay entire team's payrolls for a while) and IMO it's more important to get MLS to improve their Academies and be a "feeder" league to the existing structure. In other words, being #10 and a feeder league is good enough for us to win a WC. YMMV.
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers but I believe that DP salaries are, by far, the biggest expense for MLS teams. Do you have access to the numbers?
MLS doesn't release their spending data. Here are some things that Garber says, fwiw. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/soccer-fc-yahoo/mls-still-won-t-show-you-the-money-045602708.html There was also the not as splashy news shared along with the recent expanded "TAM" announcement of the additional spending on home grown player initiatives. http://www.foxsports.com/soccer/ins...dditional-investment-2016-2017-seasons-120915
It appears to me that you are more of (or equal) an MLS fan than a USMNT one, which is fine, of course. The path that you set out certainly works for MLS as a strategy, although I think it has significant risk. I am primarily a USMNT fan. From that perspective, I don't want our players playing in the 20th best league in the world right now if they can play above that level. I want them playing at higher levels because I believe that playing against the best makes one better. You make an argument that the fastest way to raise MLS' level above 20th is to keep our young domestic players. I disagree, the fastest way is to increase total payroll and compete monetarily vs. the other leagues.
I'm not sure that there is any risk (must less "significant risk") for the USMNT concerning what MLS is trying to do/build. In fact, I mostly see benefits for both parties. I want MLS to work on all of that -- both the "top end" of player spending the the "youth/development initiatives" --and MLS is doing exactly that. I don't at all see what the USMNT program gains when a player like Morris signs with a club like Bremen, when at the same time he could have signed for (and helped) MLS and still be "just as influential for and successful with" the USMNT. ymmv.
I agree that it benefits MLS when players commit to their league. Conversely, why should a talented youth who believes that he's a better player than the world's 20th league commit to that league? To help MLS? Why should that matter to him or to the USMNT? This is even more important because player's careers are short and they should be focused on maximizing them. Because if Morris can learn how to score against UCL defenders (which is a big if) that's really valuable for the USMNT and something that MLS simply doesn't offer. Do you not agree that it's better for a striker to score against well-organized defenses with fast, smart players that exist in BL1 than it is to score in MLS? YMMV BTW, I'd rather Morris stay in MLS because at 22 yrs old, I think the odds are better for him to get playing time at the 20th level than to work to break into a Big 4 team.
I'm not saying Morris "should" do anything. I am saying what I would appreciate if he opted to do. Your view that "should be focused on maximizing" his own career, rather than say trying to improve the quality of his own domestic league, is the statement that includes a "should" and is a statement that could be debated, imo. If Morris can learn -- note he may or probably does already know how to do this -- how to score against UCL CCL defenders (which is a big if) that's really valuable for the USMNT and something that MLS simply doesn't does offer. Morris getting games against the likes of Club America in the next two months and the top teams in MLS is (if it happens across the next two seasons) something that is going to be really valuable for the USMNT. ymmv.
Garber's comments here are very instructive. FCD and NYRB had the lowest payrolls in MLS last year. Although we haven't seen the exact figures, they happen to be the two clubs that invested the most in their academies last season. The whole discussion is a little silly. Its the job of MLS front offices to get the best players they can with the salary constraints of MLS. Seattle have reportedly offered a good deal to Morris. Whether he chooses to accept it is another matter. He has options that the overwhelming majority of young players don't. [So did Emerson Hyndman, Marc Pelosi, Sbastian Lletget, Christian Pulisic, etc. as that group of youngsters has Euro passports.] There are a lot of factors. Going to a club in a big Euro league and not playing only helps a player so much. Sebastian Lletget was at West Ham for 6 years without playing. He fell off the map for the US U23s and with the full USMNT. He came to MLS and had a stage to showcase his abilities. I have faith that with the salary offered, Jordan Morris will get playing time in MLS next year. They dumped Lamar Neagle and others to make room for him. Would he start at Bremen? I don't know. We've never seen him play a game at that level.
We've having a (civil) debate right now. Again, I think you're equally interested in what's good for MLS and I strongly think that's a consideration only if the options are equivalent ~ 20th best league. There are plenty of reasons why talented players should stay domestic: - they are not sure that they're talented enough to break through at the top academies - they are prefer the comfort of the known to the unknown but I don't think the prospect that such a player can help the league become better is an important one.
No offense but you didn't really address my answer to your question: You asked what benefit is there to Morris going to Bremen? My answer is that if he can show the ability to score against BL1 defenses that's better than the ability to score against MLS/CCL defenses. More pointedly: do you think this would be a benefit to the USMNT?
Why is going abroad and then coming back like Lee Nguyen a good option as well? What is the is the far more benefit? I'm not just asking naively. Can you quantify and explain the knock on effect of Morris playing in MLS. How does that benefit change if Morris is a solid MLS all-star and USMNT contributor vs him "Blowing up" in Europe, signing with a big club, and becoming USMNT all time leading scorer?
As we know, there are a lot of factors that the Morris' are taking into consideration. Salary, length of contract, chances of first team playing time, etc. are obvious Heck, has anybody in this argument lived abroad? It's shit. We've had all sorts of guys move from the NCAAs to Europe discuss what an incredible challenge it was (Charlie Davies was a good example. Read up on his experiences). There's a comfort to being able to start a career at a place you're comfortable. So that's a factor. Morris has some medical issues, and maybe he'd like to stay with his current doctors. I don't know, but that could be a factor. There are almost no Type 1 diabetics within major European football that we know about. Are clubs ready to accomodate Morris in the way that Seattle might? Probably, but who knows? Does Jordan Morris have a girlfriend? Does she want to move to Germany? Does he want to be near his family? There are a lot of factors here other than "the Bundesliga is better than MLS." I used to be a card-carrying Eursnob and wanted as many Americans to move abroad as possible. With every year that goes by, I'm less and less in that category of people. For every Rubio Rubin there seem to be 7 cases of guys stalling there. Big clubs hoard young players. Some are egregious like Chelsea (what do they have? 30 youngsters out on loan right now?) It's easy to get "Lletgeted." Sebastian lletget was on the reserve team of West Ham for 6 years. 6 YEARS!!! [2009-2015] We all see now that he's a quality player, but he had no opportunity to show it. There's this assumption about magical European fairy dust. That if a player goes to Europe they'll sprinkle him with this magical powder and he'll develop into a star. Its idiocy. Sure, Morris could go to Europe and be great. Morris could also go to Europe and get stuck like Mario Rodriguez. Stuck at Gladbach II for years now without being given a first team chance. Heck, I'm not sure yet how Morris will play in MLS. No clue. He'll be 22 this year and has never played a first team professional game. There's this assumption, based on nothing in particular, that he'll be a star.
This is the Spartan ideal. Go to extremes that will make the individual invincible. The Athenian ideal was somewhat different. Today Athens is a metropolis of 4m people and Sparta is a sleepy village that exists as a dot on the map to tell people where to get off the bus to see the Frankish ruins. Competition, commerce, nurturing the mind and soul, individual freedom, these are also ideals that have served us well when the system allowed it or when somebody was smart enough to design a system that exploited them. You probably guessed I am not a fan of "academies". I see the lumbering, overgrown brutes that line up for our U17's and lose regularly and think "no thanks" to academies. I think we have the chance to do better, building from the ground up.