I have been in so many discussions when the first question when discussing implementing a program is, "How do we make it scale?" Lately my answer is, "Forget about scale." It is too expensive, too time-consuming, and pretty much impossible to get try to align everyone in this massive country to a single program. Hell, we have a hard time in the tiny little Basque region. Get really good in a couple of areas. Others will quickly follow.
Pro/rel is not a defining feature of soccer for the American consumer. They don't care. Just like they don't care about how we've come to decide our league champion through a play-off, instead of just handing it to whoever sits at the top of the table at the end of the season. We don't have minor leagues yet, because there hasn't been enough money to back it. That's why we haven't been able to create the development structure we'd like. Money. The market. The economics historically didn't support it, though that's rapidly changing. Americans are starting to consumer soccer in droves, which will drive demand for more/better players, who can now be developed by the funding of the aforementioned "droves." You're right, a healthy sign is more teams. Whether it's pro/rel, or minor leagues, is just a function of logistics and profitability for the investor. I think pro/rel wouldn't survive here, and so do the people who make these decisions.
To you. TO YOU. TO YOU! The fact that you believe it proves only that you believe it. There is no history of pro/rel in the US. There is no decades-year-old league structure to get people accustomed to the way it works, to create rivalry and expectations. There is no particular reason to think that US fans would like it better than structures currently in place. If we reorganized the DI, DII, and NBA basketball into a single, three-tier league with pro/rel, would that automatically make fans like it more than the current system? Personally, I doubt it. You like it better. Fine. You ≠ All Americans And, again, IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. MLS dominates the US pro soccer world. The investors all bought in to a league without pro/rel. They are not going to imperil their investment by risking relegation to some imaginary second division. Even if you were as right as you think you are, it wouldn't matter. Even if three-legged wingers were a better bet than two-legged ones, it doesn't matter because they're not an option.
Agreed, compare the money that England spends with Spain or, much more egregiously, Uruguay. Money well spent is important, but it is not the key.
It does seem quite possible that the best way to make "it" scale is to have multiple "it"s, each of which works well under local conditions. There are a lot of ways to be a great player; it makes sense that there are a lot of ways to produce them too.
I think pro/rel will survive and be immensely successful. You think a minor league system would get enough support to survive. Neither of us have enough data to say the other is empirically wrong.
And yet you think the question is undebatable. How does that work? And I'm not necessarily advocating for a minor league system, either. The US currently has multiple tiers of pro soccer. Some of the lower-tier teams draw well, some don't. Same as in pro/rel set-ups. So it's already a viable model. Could it do better? Sure. But soccer will have to be more popular here for that to happen. And I don't think pro/rel is necessity for soccer to be more popular here. It hasn't been so far. And even if it were, I just can't imagine how it would happen.
It is already happening. The first component is TIME. The second is all the stuff you do in that time. The USSDA is a huge step in the right direction with MLS Academies leading the way. The USSDA has a set of guide lines that clubs need to follow. If they aren't following those and aren't meeting expectations they are dropped from the system. MLS has also partnered with the French Football Federation to put Academy coaches through a 16 month development course. MLS's HGP initiative helps encourage teams to bring that talent into the professional ranks. In between the USSDA and MLS is the College system. It has its limits but is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. The College system is getting better talent because of the USSDA, raising the college game and giving players stronger competition to play against. Players also go out in the Summer and play on PDL teams etc. A lot of MLS teams have U23 teams in the PDL system where they bring their academy kids back during the Summers and get them playing again in their system. College should not be overlooked either. It has its uses and can benefit players by helping them mature and be leaders. Another step, is the continued development of the partnership with USL-Pro, our 3rd division. MLS teams are allowed to form teams in USL-Pro that act as their reserve teams. Academy players can play on these teams without losing NCAA eligibility as well. The USL-Pro MLS teams will act as a bridge between the Academy and MLS, helping to get players that needed game time. It is slowly all coming together. We just need TIME and to continue to develop ALL LEVELS of our development structure. I see this happening. But it takes time.
I don't understand the purpose of our lower divisions. Were they to compete with MLS? Should it be better if they accept the role of developmental leagues. I think it's more profitable grooming and selling young prospects to MLS or to foreign clubs. I think there should be a pro division for Under-23.
Belgium’s blueprint that gave birth to a golden generation Interesting article. Of note is the government involvement. Don't see that happening here.
I never said it wasn't debatable whether or not our lack of a pro/rel system is what is holding us back from developing better players. That is clearly debatable. I've brought it up because I want to debate it. I believe it is the main reason the prevents us from developing better players. What i said was not debatable was whether a 2nd tier team in a pro/rel system would get more fan support than a minor league team not in a pro/rel system. Of course they would.
First and foremost it starts with the Money. Where is the Money in the USA? not IN SOCCER, Why because of sponsors in the USA WHO CONTROL THE TV MARKETS LIKE ESPN !!!LOOK AT THE SPORTSCENTER BROADCASTERS AFTER THE GAME.IT WAS IF LIKE ANOTHER DAY IN THE OFFICE.YET ESPN SIGNED TO BROADCAST MEXICO QUALAFIERS MATCHES IN THE USA???REALYYYY !!!REALLYY!!!!YET WE COULDNT WATCH USA @Honduras OR @costa RICA. BIG QUESTION IS HOW DO YOU GET THE YOUTH TO CONTINUE IN SOCCER THROUGH OUT HIGH SCHOOL AND BEYOND ?
It will take a lot more time than 10 years. A realistic goal is to win the World Cup this century. (Don't laugh, it took France and Spain a long time and Holland is still trying...)
If you want to keep saying this, feel free. But just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true. Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. And, again, even if it's true, it's irrelevant if MLS won't buy in. And I can't even being to imagine how that would happen. And I've now posted versions of this a half dozen times or so. So I'll just let it go.
That's what NASL says they do, well, used to anyway. Isn't that what USL-Pro is going to be for national team purposes?
I think you don't quite understand how difficult it is do promotion relegation in the united states. You can keep harping on about it, but England has 100+ clubs in that island the size of Louisiana. The United States has 20 teams in total. There is no way having hundreds of clubs in the united states that the lower league teams will be able to pay for the travel costs. Also, you probably don't get baseball because a bunch of those minor league teams are extremely popular. Brooklyn Cyclones for example.
It's not like we don't have any more money to spend on development either though. I argued the day I heard Defoe/Bradley were signing for TFC for 80M that that type of money would be better spent on youth academies and hiring proven development coaches who have a track record in top 6 leagues. Even at the academy level, we have a team like FCD spending tens of thousands on taking youth squads to Poland of all places. Each MLS team investing 500K in a proven foreign development coach would likely pay dividends and is chump change if becoming a top league in 2022 is even semi-serious.
Yes. I don't want to see them against outside of a friendly for the next several years. They are going to be a destroyer of worlds. They have some weaknesses in the back due to immaturity but I have never seen us pinned in our defensive third like they were able to do. It was brutal. I hope the 20 million +American people who watched the game saw the difference and are furiously asking themselves "Why is Belgium so much better than us? We MUST have their talent pool in a genetic sense, given our country is a melting pot and has a little slice of everything in it somewhere. We have the money to do anything. What gives?" I hope some kids saw Yedlin marking Hazard out of the game at times and saw Green score that goal and got inspired when they heard Darke mention the club salaries of Belgium's players and I hope more dual nationals saw Green's goal and decide that they want to be like him and give USSoccer a chance. I hope some kids were inspired by Howards legendary performance. I just wish we could have seen Argentina on Saturday because these next few days would have been amazing for the growth of soccer in this country and Messi would have put on a show for our kids, as bad as that sounds.