This thread's purpose is an informative one, in order for me to finally figure out what the U.S. soccer media's obsession is with the Mexican national side's "A" team. I often read articles that make statements like "This is pretty much Mexico's A squad" or "With the exception of 1 player, this is the best Mexico's got." Before someone says "Who cares, don't read them", let me just suggest you don't read this thread. I care , I want to know.. sometimes. Let's just assume that for this question's sake, I care what others say. So, okay. How are USMNT fans qualified to determine what is our A team, all the while maintaining that they never field their A team? Lavolpe is not our ace, for the most part. I know there are some still left who support the character, but let's just pretend they don't exist and that we all hate him as our coach for thread's sake. So his player selections cannot for the life of me be our strongest. Let us not bring about a discussion on the dinosaurs he calls in from time to time. When the team wins, the USMNT fans suggest we are internally moronic as our coach is "working wonders". Far from the truth, yes. But tell that to the media and fans of the garbage side. In another thread, I told Soulfly that his USMNT players are garbage, to which he replied: Mine was a simple observation, not intended to stir up a sh!tstorm. Why so defensive, SFTFC? Allow me to brief you next time before you automatically assume it's a USMNT bash in process. Besides this, we're overlooking one thing. You've gone over this before, have you not? This is the Mexican forum. Expect to get ribbed for your nonsensical support of the wrong national team. In any case, I'll get into player analysis if you really want to discuss our opposing views. Anyway, I have more questions which I had said I would ask you so here's a good opportunity. How do you find yourself rooting for the US nats when you hear the racist chants abounding from the stands? Does this not affect you, you being a Mexican? B. What do you, and other latinos in the stands/online/at bars, do and/or say when this stuff comes up? Soulfly - I post this with sincerity, not aggression.
The racist chants question is a good question. I find it ironic that the USMNT fans always complain about other fans throwing piss and what not but when it comes to their own racist chanting they just shut up. I remember during the 2002 gold cup after the US played South Korea this one US fan who happened to be of an Asian background started a thread complaining about some of the racist chants by the US fans. You would think his fellow fans would support him but no they just told him to shut up. You have no idea how many racist posts I have had to delete in they year and a half I've been a mod.
I guess the garbage comment just struck a nerve because that's the kind of crap I take from my family, the Mexico supporters. I wasn't going to post anything more than I originally did because I know this is the Mexico thread. i don't need to be reminded of that every time I stick up for my USMNT or MLS or something else. First, let me say that I don't support racism or racist chants. You want to talk trash? Then talk trash, not racist insults. Racism has no place in sports or society. I've heard people talk sh!t about Mexicans, man I hear it all the time. I don't support that garbage, whether it's in the stands at a soccer game or idiots protesting about drivers licenses. I can only stand so much of the "those illegals are criminals and draining our society" so many times. Now, as far as your original question, there are a lot of different types of USMNT fans, just like there are a lot of different types of Americans. You get the ones who want to be like England and follow the EPL. You get some like me, Mexican-Americans or some other hyphenated-American, who have a passion for soccer because of their parents/brothers/uncles/grandparents/aunts/you-get-the-picture but root for the US because (novel concept) they were born here. Then you have those who caught some soccer on tv and realized they like it and are new fans to the game. It's hard to say how much the average USMNT fan knows about Mexico. I know a lot because I follow it and I like watching the Mexican league. But some others only know of Mexico through their national team, not through their league. Today, for instance, Marcelo Balboa was talking about Jared Borgetti and how great of a player he is and then I read a post from somebody here that said Borgetti needs to go. It's just opinions, right? The average US fan IMO doesn't have enough knowledge about MFL to formulate a strong opinion on a Mexican A team. I bet you most don't know a lot about Kikin, for instance. Why? because he hasn't played for the national team a lot. Anyway, I do expect to get my share of crap for spending the majority of my time here. Usually I don't respond to the MLS or US bashing. I just laugh it off most of the time.
Well there always is gonna be racist people no matter what country it is or where you go.I agree racist chants are not all right they really shouldnt be tolerated.Last month when england played spain. The spanish fans were making monkey noises everytime a black player touched the ball which is totally wrong. I think they fined the spanish football federation for it.If you think about it, lots of countries hate the united states for different reasons so of course the opposing fans are gonna say stuff to the american players. Same for other countries as well..
I see a lot of these here on these boards................ "Yeah, you could tell that with the absence of Bravo, Bofo and Oswaldo Mexico just isn't the same team. They were ripe for the picking, but Costa Rica still looks like they have sampsonitis." What does this guy know about the team. Bravo has been scoring recently, but Down Syndrome Boy just doesn't cut it in the NT Bofo sucks........... I've said this time and time again. People jizz when he scores an awesome goal, but other than that he's worthless. We do need Oswaldo.
Im glad Soulfly atleast has stated that he has Mex Pride. The choice for the Sele is his only visible fault. but thats my opinion, ignore it as you will. as far as the USMNT players are garbage comment, who cares.
damn you fvckers for starting this thread the day I leave... well... ill be on the road in the next 30 minutes... later...
Yeah, I'll be out all day too. But hey, we can think while we're on the road. One thing about American media/fans. Mexico's nickname is el tri, or tricolor, right? Why do so many refer to them as los tricolores? Isn't that inaccurate?
I dont know if this applys to this thread, and i guess i could make a new thread but these USMNT supporters knowledge of Mex Fut is LOL-able see bolded text
I think this goes both ways Hugo as others have pointed out. How many games have Mexico played here against whomever and the actions of SOME Mexican fans is despicable ??? Remember the game against Peru in New York ??? Or the game against Uruguay in Chicago ??? How many fellow mexican fans stood up and told the fans who were misbehaving to calm down because at the end of the day it makes all mexican fans look bad. To say that the actions of a few US fans represents all is the same as the actions of a few mexican fans represents all mexicans. They are generalizations. I have no problem with Soulflys supporting the USMNT. I myself support an MLS team because I live here and I love being at the stadium. As far as US fans (more than media) expressing what they think is or isn't our A team and if Lavolpe is good or not, to me is no big deal. We are fans of the game and as fans of the game are entitled to our opinions. Even amongst mexican fans there is disagreement as to who the startes should be. Just look at the thread of who should be the starters and you will see a diverse variety of opinions. The US fans (or anyother fans) have as much right to comment and give opinions as much as we as mexicans have the right to voice our opinions of calcio, bundesliga, epl, spain, etc ... We may not be experts, but we do have the right of opinion ...
I also do not have a problem with Soulfly supporting the USMNT. If this is the team he likes or feel identified with,because he was born here, so what. it is just one aspect of his life and I don not think that shoulD make one person less Mexican, i'm sure there are some Americans that root for Mexico too somewhere. I knew a Canadian that rooted for el TRI. As far as the fans, there is good and bad everywhere and in everything, it even happens amongst us. I remember a game I attended long time ago between Pumas and San Luis where the pumas fans were shouting crap about the San Luis people been indios, and of course the examples cited above by Sangre Azul. In this forums you are going to have different levels of knowledge of the game and players by some people, so some of us that are less knowledgeable are going to make some comments that are not accurate or do not make too much sense. It goes with the territory.
I couldnt agree with you more, most US fans are hypocrites.. they are the kings of racism and yet get mad at other fans when they get disrespected, they deserve what they get such as signs of "Osama is here so lose" or "Go home Yanks" like the ones they got down in Panama...which we'rent even that bad. But as far as SoulflyTribeFC, if he wants to support the USA thats his choice, everyone chooses who they wanna support,he was born here I myself was born in the US to a Brazilian mom and Paraguayan dad but i only support Brazil and Paraguay cause thats my blood but just because he has a Mexican background it dont mean he has to support Mexico, it would be like telling Mexican fans to support Spain because of the Spanish background.
I think supporting the Quakes vs supporting the US is different. As far as Hugo's question it's really hard to say what is the A team if you're not following this team closely. If you are you might have an issue with the team the "A" team anyway. Maybe the writers get paid by word so why not mention so random crap.
When I look at other national teams, like European ones, I have a vague idea of who should start. I know the big names, but I don't know who is having a great club season and deserves a starting spot or who is having an awful season and should not be playing for the NT anymore. I try to follow Germany, for instance. Their forwards I'd say should be Kevin Kuranyi and Miroslav Klose IMO because that's what I read about mostly. I don't have FSW (is it FSC yet?) so I don't get to watch many highlights. Germany doesn't play a ton, so I can't compare lineups and things. I just have the match reports I read online (when I get around to it) of their clubs and thats it. I watched Germany's last game in the Euro 2004 group round when Bernd Schneider fvcked it up and missed a couple of sitters, just bad soccer, so I have a negative view of him, but maybe he just had some bad days back then. When it comes to Mexico, I think this is how the average USMNT fan, and probably most USMNT fans, see Mexico. They know who Borgetti is because he scores goals. He scored against the US in 01, he scored against Italy in the World Cup (nice goal too). He scored against Brazil in Copa America. He scores goals, so people know the name. They probably don't know that he went from Santos to Dorados to Pachuca in less than one year and that he had a hat trick against Chivas but otherwise hasn't done much (tell me about it, he's on my Virtual MFL team ) but he's still seen as part of Mexico's A side. They don't know that Kikin is tearing it up in league and has been for a while (maybe now they know the name) or that Palencia's not the same player he was a few years ago and that's why he's not getting called up or who Oswaldo Sanchez's replacement will be when he retires from the team or what the difference is between Omar Briseno, Maza Rodriguez, Carlos Salcido or any of the other young defenders who aren't stars. US media don't do a good job of covering Mexico, but they don't do a great job of covering anybody outside MLS. You have to look online for real coverage, and a lot of it (all of it?) is in Spanish, so unless you're ut8man or El Guero Naco and Thrashboy, most gringos aren't going to be able to keep up with Mexican footy too much. I remember after the US-Mexico game in 01 I read somewhere online (another message board site that I never go to anymore) about somebody asking about this player named Toronto on Mexico. At that time, IIRC, Torrado was a young player who had done well in league (was he in Spain at the time???) and just breaking through with the national team. But there's no way this guy knew that because he didn't keep tabs with MFL. It's easier to follow English and Scottish soccer because there is plenty of information online about the EPL and SPL and it's all in English and those games are on FSW/C. Yeah, MFL games are on Univision and Galavision and Telefutura but the non-Spanish speakers here this: babababababa Ramirez bababababa Chivas bababababababa Salcido bababababa Gooolazo AZO AZO AZO. I've watched soccer games where the commentator wasn't speaking English or Spanish and it's hard to follow what's going on.
OK. So this thread has turned into something else. My questions have not really been answered. In fact, nowhere in my topic post did I ask why Soulfly roots for the USMNT, nor did I give him crap for it. I asked him how he felt about certain things coming out of fellow supporters' mouths that directly affected him, or at the very least were about his bloodline. It's very different to be in the Meadowlands and see your countrymen act like a$$holes, as opposed to hearing your countrymen insult a national team, and/or its fans, that have a direct link to you. When the Osama chants happened, I didn't really feel bothered. I'm sure alot of people did, but not me. Am I an insensitive prick? No. There's alot to factor in here, though. To some middle easterns, central americans, south americans and Mexicans, seeing the U.S. flag flying could bring about a whole world of emotions. I don't exactly think we need to get into what things symbolize, nor how football is a sport that should be free of politcs, as both have been examined to death. On a personal level, I think about how maybe some choose to ignore the past but politics indeed have long been a part of football. Hypothetical situation: How does Wilton Nuñez react in the stands at a USMNT match where Sam's Army (the general US fans, not the specific supporter group as I believe it is now defunct) shout random crap such as "Mow my lawn!" or "INS!" Does he chuckle, thinking in his head "What the.. ?", while pretending to be okay with it? Is he actually okay with it? Irony and double standards. What do these latino fans say or do? I don't know how I could deal with that, but that's just me. Time to review the thread's initial purpose. 1 - I asked Soulfly how HE personally dealt with this. 2 - I asked a general question to the board about our mysterious A-team and how ridiculous certain articles/posts/commentary sound. For fvck's sake, I hope people stop appearing with their "Soulfly can root for whoever he wants" diatribe as this not that kind of thread.
I tried to reply to number two above. Suggesting a starting lineup when you don't know the players and how they are doing in league is just asking for trouble. I've never posted in the Germany forums and I probably ever won't for that reason. As to how I deal with racism, well, I haven't heard any of the anti-Mexican chants at soccer games. The only US-Mexico game I've been to was the Gold Cup 98 and there weren't many American fans there. If somebody was saying that stuff and directing it to the Mexican players, I'd tell them that those guys make a lot more in one year than they do in their pathetic lives so if anyone should be mowing anyone's lawn, it should be you, you insensitive prick, mowing their lawns. If it's directed at Mexicans in the stands, I'd probably move before a riot erupted. I might tell them to stop with the insults or take that crap somewhere else. I was at a Mexico-Argentina game once where some Mexicans and Argies were talking smack before the gates opened. The Argies were chanting and singing and some of the Mexicans started saying "Ch!nga tu madre" and the Argies looked in their direction and shook their fingers at them, kinda like saying that's not how we talk smack, let's keep this clean. I might do something like that. I don't want you to think that I mix my soccer and politics. I love the USMNT but I hate the US' foreign policies. I don't support the war, I don't support Bush and his administration, I don't support the anti-Mexican movement in California. I didn't vote for Ah-nold, or Cruz for that matter. Every day, I read stories about "those damn illegals" and how migrants (I refuse to call them illegal aliens) are a drain on society. That sh!t just gets under my skin. I have zero tolerance for that crap. So why would I support it at stadiums? I used to go to a lot of baseball and sometimes I'd be close enough to yell at opposing players. I'd yell at them sometimes but I'd say stuff like Hey scrub go back to Triple A or You couldn't hit water if you fell out of a boat or You couldn't catch a cold, you know the usual stuff. I never made it personal or insulted someone racially. That sh!t sucks.
Indeed Noob I remember a while back the USMNT was going to play Uruguay and the Sams army types were starting threads about possible chants against the Uruguayos. Anyhoo at the same time there was plans for the yanks to play Ireland, the threads for that match said it all. Where the Uruguayos were dirty hacks, the Irish were pure class.. i know that in a few years there will be more mexies like soulfly representing the US nads and the attitude might change or maybe a seperate cheering group, Panchos Army ?
The road less travelled, presumably. I still laugh out loud when I read "US Nads." I believe it'd be Joe Hernandez's Army, que no?
~ Chivas Nation ~ Me thinks Chivas USA can/will create a link to Mexies cheering the US nads.. Once the chivas start representing in the Yank National team we will see more mexican americans accepting the USMNT as their first or second national team. Things will get interesting..
Hugo---You abrought about an answerless question ( I think). Thats the big dichotomy which exists with US born mexicans. Living in this gray zone can be rather difficult, expecially when americans start yelling out "atleast my dad doesnt work at a paleta cart" and other racist things. The more important thing is why the US fans are reacting this way against Mexico. My theory, media driven confidence. Allow me to brief: No. The USMNT will not win in Azteca (this year)--lets get that out of the way. I think the true dilema facing Mexico is this: Mexicans (especially native born) can/will not accept the fact that a soccer rich nation storied in victorious tradition has been caught by a non-soccer rich/ traditionless United States. The American Press/people know this, and they use this to agitate Mex Futbol or build confidence for American soccer. Bruce Arena has his players beleiving they represent a great soccer nation and they can take over as the CONCACAF power. Eventually the empire will fall as with all great empires throughout history.
I love it when mexicans run their mouths. Anyways I will admit that the US team ALWAYS plays bad at the azteca, but the PAST is the PAST. I will still remain humble with my American squad cause we have never won anything just like every other team in the CONCACAF. This current mexican squad is not as good as the WC squad from 2002 though. That WC02 squad played out of their mind. This current mexican team is younger but in that Costa Rica game it was obvious they got a long WAY to go. Mexican defense is superb though, I will admit that. American squad will NOT lose in the azteca this year though.