Post-match: Mexico 3-US 0 9.6.19

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by manfromgallifrey91, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. RefIADad

    RefIADad Member

    Sporting KC
    United States
    Aug 18, 2017
    If you're going to tell me that players like Andre Igoudala and Deron Williams were two of the 15 most talented US basketball players in 2008 and 2012, OK. They weren't (and I like both players). Those USA teams might have been very talented, but they were not simply the 15 most talented US players.

    Here were some of the players on the last three Olympic teams. All good players, but they fit within the team more than just being supremely talented.

    2008 - Deron Williams, Tayshaun Prince, Michael Redd
    2012 - Tyson Chandler, Deron Williams, and Andre Igoudala
    2016 - Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, DeAndre Jordan

    Yes, I know these teams had some mega-stars like LeBron, Kobe, Westbrook, and Anthony Davis. However, the back end of the rosters were not just based on individual talent. So my point still stands. Yes, you have some top players that will be on the field no matter what. Once you have that, you build a team and a system around them that isn't just throwing the next most talented group of players on the field. You select the rest of the roster and style of play to maximize your best talent.
     
  2. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Mexico result just shows not to get to up or down over one game and especially friendlies. For all we know Mexico might have used that games a training exercise to learn how to pass out of the back! :D
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    If your point was that those teams picked like 8 superstars and then rounded out the roster with a defender, a shooter and a glue guy or two, okay. (Igoudala, Butler and 2012 Chandler don't deserve the disrespect here, though).

    But those teams won because they rolled out LeBron, Kobe, Wade, etc. They overwhelmed with talent. It was not an incredibly coaching feat nor was the team designed to a system.

    We lost in 2004 because the US didn't send our very best except one or two players, one of whom was REALLY not suited to the international game (Iverson).

    We're losing now because we're sending like a D team.

    Overall, I agree with you that the best 15 players aren't the best team, but USA Basketball just isn't a good analogy. We overwhelm with talent. We're like if Europe sent one combined national team to the World Cup.

    And yes, I realize this is a pointles digression. :)
     
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  4. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US v Mexico B match showed how poor GB's scheme is defensively against a competent, quick, transition-attacking side.

    Mexico brought their A team against Argentina with Tecatito and Chucky flanking Jimenez. Argentina showed what a pressing, tough-in-the-tackle quick squad could disrupt and stifle Mexico in the middle of the pitch and that Alvarez as Tata's #6 will be a weakness against a quick, aggressive midfield.

    Hopefully something GB can learn from and exploit in future matchups.
     
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  5. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What’s your confidence level we’ll have a Trapp/Bradley-led team when we face them in the Hex?....
     
  6. mannycoon

    mannycoon Member

    May 13, 2009
    This list of players just shows the type of player that is commonly undervalued. Defensive talent is still talent, even if it often gets undervalued; Gobert just annihilated Team USA this year. Well rounded players with broad skill sets tend to be undervalued in most sports. I would take literally all of these guys for a national team over someone like Carmelo Anthony. Picking only star scorers rather than guys like this would be like picking a soccer team with only strikers and attacking midfielders and no backs or keepers.
     
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  7. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In a rational world Trapp would be nowhere near the USMNT and we should have already scheduled a retirement match for MB90.

    A couple of years ago Kljestan annoyingly said in response to Trapp-pimping by the MLS Soccer "reporters" that essentially Trapp was a soccer cone who could ping long balls if there was zero pressure on him. That description is spot on at the NT level.

    BB, JK, and BA have all said that many in the media don't really understand the game and Trapp is a data point in the coaches' column. JK looked at Trapp at CC2015 and told him "you can't just sit there and do nothing". BA called Trapp in to CC2017 and sent him home before the final roster and friendlies!

    The good news; the evidence that Trapp is useless at the NT level is now so overwhelming that even the media can no longer advocate for him. They are now trying to find other reasons to have him on the roster.

    Bradley is still Bradley, the smartest player on the field even if he has slowed down a half-step. Trapp's the best leader on the team, a guy who could make a roster for that ability alone.

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/united-...ere-they-should-worry-ahead-of-world-cup-2022
     
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  8. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    It's the same thing they've done with Bradley for years. At first he wasn't good enough but played because of his dad and we heard "we have to play those young prospects." These are many of the same people who say Sargent doesn't get enough minutes now btw... Then Bradley actually hit for a few years and was pretty good but he was always an 8. Somehow he rarely played there and we were told that "he may not be the best #10 but who is better, we definitely shouldn't try anyone else because he can shoot (once every 4-5 games)! Then JK played three defensive mids which actually is the last time our midfield held their own against decent competition. He and Jones covered up each other's weaknesses very well with Beckerman being a real 6. When Jones got injured, Bradley's game had declined immensely and we went through this whole phase of "he's the best, we just have to find him the right partner" when the truth was he was no longer good enough, especially as a sole #6. Now, the excuse has moved to "no one else can hit long diagonal passes" and who really expects their #6 to defend better than a traffic cone anyway? It's really pathetic and shows zero knowledge of soccer by those who say it.

    I went on my Bradley diatribe to say get ready. Will Trapp is their new guy. We will be hearing for many years about intangibles, long balls, coach on the field, etc all in an attempt to justify the permanent inclusion of someone who has no business being on the 40. I'm kinda afraid Yuell is the backup plan to Trapp. Durkin was for a while. I don't know enough about Yuell to know whether he may one day belong but I do know that the next time we have a competition for the #6 spot will make me very happy.

    Sorry Canouse, Servania, Danny Williams, etc. You have not been anointed by Saint SUM so cross your fingers for a Camp Cupcake call!
     
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  9. Salmos

    Salmos Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 26, 2010
    Berkeley, CA
    Club:
    Pachuca CF
    I agree that if Mexico is going to compete vs better teams this midfield setup doesn’t work. Herrera, JDS, Edson are all on the slower side. We would have looked much better with Guardado who isn’t as pressure-shy as JDS but regardless any good fast team can sit back and sharpshoot through that midfield when possible. Especially when you think about Araujo and Salcedo who are good center backs but also kind of slow so they’re always a liability when they spend the first 20 minutes of the match almost at the center of the pitch.

    For what it’s worth Tata learned from the first half, and even though it’s difficult to gauge much from a second half in a done game, with that second half strategy this is a one or two goal game. We’ll just have to wait and see if he can adapt because Osorio couldn’t. He won every winnable match and crumbled the second he faced this exact strategy vs a modestly talented Sweden. The US doesn’t have the talent to exploit this MX squad the way Argentina did but they can give us some tough matches if they follow this blueprint.
     
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  10. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From your lips to Berhalter's ears one would hope.

    Unfortunately basic analytical tactics seems to escape GB. I guess if the USSF sold you as a tactical guru the straightforward stuff has little appeal...
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’th A conthpirathy!
     
  12. gunnerfan7

    gunnerfan7 Member+

    SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
    United States
    Jul 22, 2012
    Pleasanton, California
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whatever the reasons, Trapp and MB keep getting trotted out. Until they stop getting calls and starts, the anger will continue.
     
  13. bob347

    bob347 Member

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Oct 15, 2017
    You know our soccer analysts and most fans don't get it when the phrases "we want to unbalance the defense", "play out of the back", attractive soccer, & "system" is used in connecting sentences. No Crap Sherlock, every team wants to do that.... No one would accuse Argentina of not having technical enough players that they can't play out of the back but because Mexico tried to high press, they either one touched their way through midfield but mostly they just played over the top in the first 1/2 and scorched Mexico. Martinez countered that in the 2nd 1/2 but it was too little too late. All the great coaches have some strategy for and against the ball but trying to implement a very rigid system no matter who the opponent is, what it's doing, and how your players match up to them is just stupid.

    I'm sure Tata probably already had a good idea but tried anyway to play against Argentina like he did against the US. He now knows for sure that he can't and will adjust to something that gives his team the best chance to win next time. GGG will still be stuck on a "system" irregardless of wins or losses even when they mean something.
     
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  14. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Mexico had a whopping 63% possession against Argentina! :ROFLMAO:

    I don't think Tata would try that in a competitive match against Argentina.
     
  15. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    But Jackson Yueill. :)
     

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