It's not that the US is trying to emulate Mexico's style..............they're still searching for their own style.
The US is just bringing in talented players. This cycle some of the best players are Hispanic. Villareal, Joya, Gil etc. last cycle out best players weren't really Hispanic or Mexican. Sometimes they will be, other times not.
Not really disagreeing, but I'd frame it a little differently. I don't think we're seeing a one-off cycle that's dominated by Hispanic players. I think we're seeing a profound change in the background of the best young American players. And as these young players start to reach the senior level, our style needs to be their style. In case anyone would like a reminder of how little Hispanic talent was in our pipeline 8 or 10 years ago, here's what our U20 qualifying rosters looked like back then. GOALKEEPERS (2): Quentin Westberg (ESTAC Troyes), Andrew Kartunen (Stanford); DEFENDERS (5): Patrick Ianni (UCLA), Hunter Freeman (Virginia), Patrick Phelan (Wake Forest), Tim Ward (St. Louis), Marvell Wynne (UCLA); MIDFIELDERS (7): Arturo Alvarez (San Jose Earthquakes), Eddie Gaven (MetroStars), Greg Dalby (Notre Dame), Will John (St. Louis), Benny Feilhaber (UCLA), Sacha Kljestan (Seton Hall), Danny Szetela (Columbus Crew); FORWARDS (4): Freddy Adu (D.C. United), Chad Barrett (UCLA), Charlie Davies (Boston College), Jacob Peterson (Indiana). Barclay, Devin F 5'9" 165 04/09/83 Annapolis, Md. San Jose Earthquakes (MLS) Cameron, Knox F 6'3" 210 09/17/83 Bronx, N.Y. University of Michigan Clark, Ricardo M 5'10" 165 05/21/83 Jonesboro, Ga. Furman University Cochrane, Ryan D 6'1" 170 08/08/83 Portland, Ore. Santa Clara University Convey, Bobby M 5'8" 150 05/27/83 Philadelphia, Pa. D.C. United (MLS) Cronin, Steve GK 6'2" 195 05/28/83 Fair Oaks, Calif. Santa Clara University Grabavoy, Ned M 5'7" 155 07/01/83 New Lenox, Ill. Indiana University Harvey, Jordan D 5'11" 170 01/28/84 Mission Viejo, Calif. UCLA Johnson, David M 5'11" 160 01/16/84 Venice, Calif. Willem II (Holland) Johnson, Ed F 6'0" 170 03/31/84 Palm Coast, Fla. Dallas Burn (MLS) Klaas, Craig Jared D 5'7" 160 08/23/83 Cherry Valley, Ill. University of Washington Lancos, Chris D 6'1" 175 07/12/84 Belford, N.J. University of Maryland Mapp, Justin M 5'10" 160 10/18/84 Brandon, Miss. D.C. United (MLS) Marshall, Chad D 6'3" 185 08/22/84 Riverside, Calif. Stanford University Quaranta, Santino F 6'1" 185 10/14/84 Baltimore, Md. D.C. United Simek, Frank D 6'0" 175 10/13/84 Millstadt, Ill. Arsenal Stone, Jordan M 6'1" 170 03/16/83 Allen, Texas Dallas Burn (MLS) Williams, Ford GK 6'3" 190 02/20/84 Raleigh, N.C. University of North Carolina
Thanks for looking that up. For comparison, half of the 2013 U20 qualifying roster is of Hispanic/Latin origin. Here's the breakdown this year: 10 Hispanic/Latin 6 white 3 black 1 German
That's fair. We are definitely doing a much better job of scouring the globe and even the nook and crannies of our own back yard. Back a few years ago I don't know if US soccer would have found 17 year old kids down in the reserve leagues of Mexico. Maybe they did and they just erroneously thought they weren't good enough or whatever. They seemed pretty content to do the easy work and call in an NCAA all star team. My point was more that while this year's team does feature a lot of Mexican kids in prominent roles (and it would have been more if Salgado was healthy), I don't think it's a complete indication of a trend large numbers of Mexican-American players coming through. The early big names for the next cycle Arriola (I don't think he's Mexican, maybe he is or isn't), Canouse, Gaitan, Pfeffer, Spencer, Acosta don't feature any Mexican kids. Although watch me be completely wrong and Delgado, Alves, Lopez and Villareal turn out to be the key players next cycle. Hah! Last cycle featured basically Moises Orozco and Omar Salgado. Moises Hernandez I think is Guatemalan. 2009 featured Danny Cruz and Jorge Villafana. I don't think we can see a trend yet of the US featuring a lot of Mexican-American players in the youth teams. This year just seems like an aberration with a lot of good Mexican-American players in the team. Of course the US is trying to move more towards a fluid, passing, skilled game, because that's what's been most effective in the world of the game.
Arriola is Mexican-American, which helps explain his tryout in TJ. In any case, it's easier to pick up a trend by looking at the broader category of Hispanic rather than just Mexican American. 92 Agudelo, Lletget, Zavaleta 93-94 current U20s 96 Rubin On top of that, the top 95 raised in the US is probably Fagundez. Even though he's not eligible, he arguably belongs as part of the trend. Plus, you've got kids like Richard Sanchez showing up on Mexico YNT's, which didn't happen in the old days.
Well I missed on Arriola. The 95-96 would have Rubin, Arriola and Gaitan as the early key players who are hispanic. Zavaleta I don't remember playing for the U20s? Was his last run out with the US in the U17s? What's Lletget's background? I thought he was French?
Also something to consider is not only is there a heavy Latin influence on this team, but an MLS influence in terms of MLS academies and homegrown signings. Normally, this was a team made up solely of Bradenton grads and college kids. It's become distinctly more professional. This qualifying roster gives great credence to the notion that we are progressing on both fronts.
We actually have more college players this year than last cycle. 2013: 8 2011: 4 2009: 8 2007: 9 2005: 13
I'm not looking at strictly pro vs. college as much as I am the MLS academies. This is what we've been trying to work on. Getting more homegrown and academy players. Players like Valentin, MacMath, Okugo, Kitchen, Powers, etc. were drafted out of Bradenton/college, not developed by their clubs. The academy model is the one we need to keep seeing positive signs from.
Just interesting after we proclaimed the death of college soccer on these boards last cycle that it's back pretty strong this year. You're right, last cycles number really could be 7 if you count Kitchen, Valentin and MacMath who had just become pro for about a week before qualifying. Of course this year's number could also be 10 because Lopez and Serna just left North Carolina and Akron. Your overall point is correct, that MLS academies and home grown signings are becoming more of a factor. Of course in Serna's case they were not mutually exclusive. And Harrera is right that in some cases these systems now benefit countries like Mexico and Uruguay as well.
Really what I would like to phase out is the conventional IMG-college-draft pathway that has dominated the U20 teams recently. You'll get some decent players out of this (Kitchen, Okugo), but my vision is a little more far-sighted. If we are going to have a robust youth development program in this country, it's not going to come from a USSF-sponsored residency that takes 30-40 kids every year. It's going to take the academies of all 19-20 MLS clubs, who are encouraged to invest in their own development structures, so they can discover players and be rewarded for developing them, be it competitively or financially.
An age-tweener right? On the younger side for the last cycle, and just aged out of this cycle? Kinda like Jack McBean with this 2013 group. People have been predicting the death of NCAA soccer for as long as I can remember on these boards, and it just isn't happening. Not close. In fact, the development academy is strengthening the NCAAs. For while a couple of elite kids are signed as homegrowns, the rest of the kids should now be stronger when they head to the NCAAs. As far as the original intent of this thread, I agree with what's being said here. The direction the US program is taking has nothing to do with "Mexican style." After all, the guys leading the charge aren't Mexican. Tab Ramos is Uruguayan. Our youth technical director, Claudio Reyna is of Argentine descent. Wilmer Cabrera is Colombian. Oscar Pareja..........Colombian. There has been a push however to a more possession-oreiented style, and there is indeed a nice stream of Mexican-American talent being brought into the US program. But I don't think it's a forced thing. Those happen to be the best players in the pool. I'm not really looking at any of the Mexican-Americans in this U20 group and see guys that don't belong there. We also need to remember that with the rise in the latino population in this country, a rise in the percentage of latino players in US youth programs is/was inevitable. Note especially that in the two states we normally consider the biggest hotbeds of youth soccer talent in the country (California and Texas).............this is especially the case. If I remember correctly Latinos are now the largest ethnic group in California.
Yep. If you show me an all-professional US U-20 team, I'll show you a lazy coach with limited scouting and evaluation ability. We all know that the NCAA isn't an ideal developmental environment, but we all should know that all the alternatives have a lot of issues. At this point in time, some of our best U-20 talent is going to be in the NCAA for one reason or another. Ignoring them in favor of youth team roster fodder in some pro academy is unwise. People forget how many academy players exist and that only the elite of an academy actually makes it at the club. Most of our pro contingent right now seems to be doing at least decently (and injury cases like Packwood and Pelosi were showing something as well), but others have more concerning resumes like Rodriguez, Cuevas, and Ocegueda. We'll withhold judgment until we can see them in action, but it's something to keep an eye on. (This is when Hararea points out that even our NCAA guys are often lazy legacy choices -- players who have been with the US program since the U14 level and have been carried by inertia ever since. He's right, but that's a whole different issue...)
This is where style defers from system, if you want to compare both processes. Mexico, the way I've seen it, has adopted a more defensive counter attacking system for all levels (excluding U17). 4-2-3-1 the two in the middle recovering (one more attacking) while having two quick wingers that either cross or cut in, the 10 is either that or a winger/striker depending on personnel. Basing on what they've won, one can't say it's not worth "copying" however the US seems more interested in the 4-3-3 that Barcelona have made popular with it's origins being based on the dutch, and South America. On style I wouldn't completely say Mexico has superior technique, in fact I would say only Costa Rica and El Salvador have that in this region. As it is the team is just a reflection of the current landscape in many aspects.
my first question, how is the mexican style? Play as Barcelona sounds good, good luck. When you mean technique, what exactly do you mean?
Their style currently? It's a balance from counter-attacking. In the past it used to be a more frontal attack (La Volpe at least) where they would look to create more chances rather than look for the error. Regardless of winning or losing that's the Mexico I remember from those days, in part the last U-17 had a bit of that. By technique I mean individually, players who can create by themselves for example Vela/Dos Santos or in the past a Cuauhtemoc. Mexico still hasn't reached that development at the youth level, at least at a rapid pace. Perhaps that's why the system works, it plays to the strength of the current players.
Are my addition skills poor? I added up the number of players that attended college from our US 2011 Concacaf roster that didn't qualify and came up with 8, and this year I come up with 10 counting Steffen who will be at MD. http://www.ussoccer.com/News/U-20-M...zes-Roster-for-CONCACAF-U20-Championship.aspx GOALKEEPERS (2): Zac MacMath (Philadelphia Union; St. Petersburg, Fla.), DEFENDERS (8): Sebastien Ibeagha (Duke; Missouri City, Texas), Perry Kitchen (D.C. United; Indianapolis, Ind.), Zarek Valentin (Chivas USA; Lancaster, Pa.), MIDFIELDERS (5): Amobi Okugo (Philadelphia Union; Sacramento, Calif.), Dillon Powers (Notre Dame; Plano, Texas), Kelyn Rowe (UCLA; Newport Beach, Calif.) FORWARDS (5): Eder Arreola (UCLA; Chino Hills, Calif.), 2013: GOALKEEPERS (3): 12-Kendall McIntosh (Santa Clara; Santa Rosa, Calif.), 22-Zack Steffen (FC DELCO Academy; Downington, Pa.) DEFENDERS (6):18-Eric Miller (Creighton; Woodbury, Minn.), 2-Boyd Okwuonu (North Carolina; Edmund, Okla.), 14-Javan Torre (UCLA; Santa Monica, Calif.) MIDFIELDERS (5):15-Mikey Lopez (Sporting Kansas City; Mission, Texas), 16-Dillon Serna (Colorado Rapids; Brighton, Colo.), 6-Wil Trapp (Columbus Crew; Gahanna, Ohio) FORWARDS (6):19-Brandon Allen (Georgetown; Old Bridge, N.J.), 17-Danny Garcia (North Carolina; Dallas, Texas),