Measuring Success - The Arsenal (Emery) Barometer

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by ArsenalJake, Aug 20, 2018.

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  1. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Am I the only one that is perturbed that it took Emery all season to realize he has to fit our best four attackers on the pitch in their best positions? This includes his spat with Ozil only for dude to look exactly the same as he did before Emery decided to pay him 5 million dollars to make Instagram posts?
     
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  2. casoccerdad47

    casoccerdad47 Member+

    Mar 31, 2006
    From a coach who reportedly provided a detailed analysis of the Arsenal roster and how to improve the players in his interview.
     
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  3. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    No, you aren't the only one. It has been a source of frustration for a lot of us. It's a knock against him, and it seemed so obvious to me. However, I still want to judge him holistically.
     
  4. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The way we been playing the last few matches could have been earlier in the season.

    We could potentially have distance on Spurs if he played to our strengths in the fall. He is getting a pass because fans only care about the last result but I’m more upset that it took him this long to say we should play our best players in their positions.
     
  5. maskito

    maskito Member+

    Arsenal
    Jan 14, 2006
    Nashville
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Could your help me understand your basis for this thought, Prince? I normally agree with your opinions, but this one is odd to me.

    We lost to City and Chelsea right at the start, then went 21-22 without a loss in all competitions, and most of those were wins (albeit against lighter competition).
     
  6. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've been wondering if many of his line-up decisions during the packed middle of the season weren't a simple result of rotating players to allow them to last through a whole season.

    For instance, lots of people were slamming him for not playing Laca & Auba together more. The last 2 matches he's done that but otherwise it's generally been pretty rare I think.

    Maybe with just 10-13 matches remaining in the season, and an 18 day break before our next match, that combined to make him feel more comfortable "over playing" his 2 strikers in the past week.

    IOW, now that we're on the home stretch, almost out of the woods, maybe Emery's throwing more caution to the wind for the run-in. (Wow that was a lot of cliched metaphors for one sentence!)

    Maybe he would've liked to have done this a lot more (e.g. 2 strikers) but was taking the prudent, conservative approach... managing player fitness & longevity?
     
  7. DaPrince84

    DaPrince84 Member+

    Aug 22, 2001
    MD
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I’m talking late fall into last few weeks.
     
  8. chjoak

    chjoak Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have said numerous times that I believe we are at our best offensively when PAE & Laca play as a ST pair. That said, our roster is not setup to allow us to play that way too often seeing as how we have zero quality depth behind those 2. I realize we have several other needs this summer but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see us go after a quality young ST that could rotate with those 2 so we can spend more time in a 4-4-2 diamond, 4-2-2-2 (my favorite) or 3-4-1-2.
     
  9. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Roma, the dumbasses that they are, give up on Patrik Schick, then we should be all over him.
     
  10. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Being a glutton for punishment I decided to listen to Emery's post-match presser from yesterday's trouncing by Wolves. Several times he said something like "the big thing is to recover our possibility". God knows what that means! And is it truly the "big thing"?

    Even with a bit of an end-of-season implosion, he's just about exceeding preseason expectations. I heard somewhere that he's got the best return from his first 50 matches than any previous Arsenal manager... true? Anyway, I'm still supporting him.

    And I continue to respect his braveness, his lack of insecurity, in conducting his pressers 100% in English. BUT he seems to be the master of using many words without actually communicating very much. I so look forward to him attaining a high-intermediate mastery of the English language, but I'm starting to wonder if that may not happen. Or even if it does, maybe we won't learn much more???
     
  11. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Sort of, but that's in part because of 12 Europa League matches. We need to win our last three games to match last season's points total, a total which got Wenger fired.
     
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  12. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Uh, didn't Arsenal finish on 63 points last season?
     
  13. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup. We've already exceeded that by 3pts, with 9pts still to play for. Not sure what @mebeSajid is smokin these days.
     
  14. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whereas Wenger was the master of using few words to say absolutely nothing at all. :ROFLMAO:
     
  15. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #215 NorthBank, Apr 26, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
    You can rightly criticize Wenger for many things, including tactical flexibility, player transactions, etc, etc. But when it comes to intelligent, informative and entertaining press conferences, he was at the elite level! :D
     
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  16. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It's interesting how fine the margins are from Emery, Sarri and Smeagol

    There is only 3 points between the clubs, but it looks like Sarri has saved his job, whereas it feels like Arsenal and Utd have imploded

    But actually in the last 10 games, the form of all 3 teams has been relatively similar

    And had Arsenal bothered to win against Palace we'd be feeling good about the season right now, only 1 pt behind spurs.
     
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  17. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I brain dead. That's what I get for mindlessly parrotting claims from Twitter. Should be 2016-2017.

    I still think we're worse as a team under Emery and were better under Wenger. Emery was a bad hire.
     
  18. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Kudos for admitting that. As for Emery possibly being a bad hire... 3 things were pretty much certain for Arsenal last year: Wenger had to go as the team had bottomed out under his leadership, the team would continue to struggle for a spell due to personnel moves that could not be undone overnight, and that Arsenal didn't have the ability to lure someone of the Pep or Klopp calibre based on who was available and the club's sinking clout. Maybe they could have tapped someone from a "lower" club who becomes the next Pochettino but that's both a risk and seemingly something the fans didn't want; Unlike S***s in this example Arsenal was still close enough to the top that they had more to lose in their coaching gamble. Does that mean Emery as a hire was too conservative? Maybe, but if so that's on the club, not Emery, and there's still plenty of evidence Emery can do better with a side that has stronger personnel.

    Bottom line, I'm not sure there are better coaching hires to be had right now and Arsenal still needs better players regardless, so I'm waiting another season before considering the "Emery out!" petition.
     
  19. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #219 NorthBank, Apr 26, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
    How many of us saw Emery as the long-term savior manager, rather than as simply the first step in a post-Wenger transition? I certainly didn't.

    With that and other factors in mind, I think he's just about exceeded expectation for the season... so far.

    That said, we've lost 3 out of our last 4 league games. And if we lose the next and final 3 games, and if United wins just 1 of theirs, we finish 6th... the worst we can do at this point. Then if we also get knocked out of Europa by Valencia, then I'd say he'd have fallen just short of expectations.

    Edit: OTOH, if we win a European trophy and/or finish 4th, then of course his first year will be a clear success.

    5-6 games to go in our season overall, so let's just see how it turns out before judging him. As Jitty said, the margins are very fine.
     
  20. ArsenalJake

    ArsenalJake Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Charlotte
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.

    Reserving judgement for now, but man it really is a thin margin for error, that's for sure.
     
  21. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think Emery's been too cautious by far, especially away from home, and that's really cost us. And we saw it really early in the season at Stamford Bridge, where we would have gotten at least a point but for Emery parking the bus in the second half.
     
  22. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup. That's been bugging me for a long time. And not just Emery. Late-Wenger sides used to do it too. I've generally thought the best way to play is to play to the max offensively, for every game. Dominate them, high-press them, take away their oxygen, etc. Sure it's traditional in this league (and most if not all others) to play differently at home vs away, but I've never liked that tradition.

    Countless times we've gone up 1-0 and then sat back, trying to preserve. And I'd be talking to the TV saying "no, no, that's too risky for our defense... go for a 2nd, and then a 3rd"

    Of course I realize that not all squads are good enough, or fit enough, or big enough, to do this. The intensity is super high. In the EPL, Man City seems the best example of this, the closest to achieving it. And obviously Arsenal are quite a few miles away from their level, but a big part of me still aspires to playing the same way... home and away. Dream on I guess.
     
  23. And_ROOS

    And_ROOS Member+

    Dec 30, 2006
    Melbourne, Aus
    Its why Pool and City are clear top. They go hard home and away, and make teams respond to the way they play. None of this attack at home and be coy away.
     
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Pool have a far more strategic approach and a 3 year head start
     
  25. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Liverpool are only as good as their next mistake and have had great luck with injuries.
     

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