Measuring Success - The Arsenal (Emery) Barometer

That interview is a classic.

 

Out team folded and over, got beat by the same tactics, lost to lesser sides too often, and could not adjust during a game (late subs and weird subs at that). That's coaching.

 

You said Nasri got worse with Arsenal?

 

Retrials of managers and players from our past...

 

We have whole threads of you talking to yourself. Relax.

 

Ok. I will revise that. I don't think that he lived up to his expectations outside of that one season where he admittedly balled out. I could be biased because I wasn't a big fan of his game. Now he is 31 playing in Turkey. I feel like that says enough.

 

Yeah, he didn’t live up to HIS expectations, but that wasn’t due to Wenger. His best play in his entire career was at Arsenal. He was always a good player who became a super sayin that last season before he shut it down to save himself for a summer transfer.

I don’t think players got worse when signing with Arsenal. What I will say is that Wenger’s youth development record was wildly overrated.

 

OK but that's generally in the matchday threads, where my posts are at least on-topic. And where there has been a venerable tradition of PBP commentary, even if there isn't a ton of response to the PBP. And where there's always a hope of triggering some actual convo. Quite a few of us have been guilty of this I'd say.

p.s. I am quite relaxed. Especially about Wenger being gone and the legacy he left. I've moved on and am at totally at peace with it. I'm also willing to give Emery some leeway before I jump off his ship, like some others seem to be doing, 5 months into his tenure.

 

Nasri had 3 good months here as a rw then went to shit

Arshavin was wasted on lw as I said all those years ago, he was a ten for Russia in 08 euros and zenit, another clueless piece of business from prime wenger

These small, weak ‘playmakers’ won is nothing while Utd dominated with Ronaldo and Rooney etc

 

No, podolski was a shining example of a limited player wenger, as usual, had an inflated opinion of

 

Clearly they were disappointments. But at the end of the day, offensive players are generally evaluated on their production, i.e. how many goals they score, because goals win games. Podolski and Arshavin were flawed players, neither was very good on the defensive side of the ball, but they did!n't get worse under Wenger, as documented by their production numbers, they were just bad buys. Wenger made a lot of mistakes in the transfer market, some of which still haunt us, but that's what happens when you are mostly shopping in the bargain basement. p.s. I do know that Arshavin was a club record fee at the time.

I can name more players that were more successful at Arsenal than they were elsewhere. I can't think of any big name player for whom the reverse is true, except maybe Gervinho. I was a little flip, by saying who else you got, but when you come on here and express an opinion that Wenger made players worse, you ought to be able to point to clear, supportable examples of the players you feel he made worse to support that opinion.

 

Cesc couldn't win the league with us, and won a few titles with Barcelona.

Ashley Cole actually reached his peak with Chelsea, due to his age profile, and the fact that he improved drastically on the defensive side once he left us. For all the attacking talents we've developed, it's interesting we've never had similar success with defensive players. Koscielny is perhaps the only exception. Cole also, of course, won the UCL with Chelsea.

RvP finally won the EPL with Man Utd.

Something tells me Ox will win more at Liverpool than with us as well.

Even our GOAT won more in 3 years at Barcelona than 8 years with us.

 

Interesting point here about Emery's tactics. Can understand why these tactics would be difficult to recognize (other than the press) - they aren't nearly as distinctive as tiki taka or Klopp's gegenpress (and Klopp's pressing scheme has only worked this season because they signed VVD and told him to figure it out).

My take on this is that Arsenal's midfield and wide players aren't nearly good enough to be competitive with this style: you need elite wide players for this to work. In a way, what Emery wants to do on the ball isn't that different from what Sarri is trying to do at Chelsea. Difference is that Hazard is elite, and that creates a margin for error that Arsenal don't have.

IMO, for Arsenal to have a chance at top four this season, Emery needs to find a way to make things work with Ozil, either centrally or out wide, and the passing from the back needs to be a lot less predictable.

From what I've seen, trying to increase the intensity without the ball from what it was under Wenger. With the ball, draw teams out playing from the back to open space in behind, or circulate side to side and penetrate through the wings with over/underlaps to get in behind. https://t.co/wkAYpojFMe

— JM (@JMftbl) January 1, 2019

 

This team looks a bit different on offensive side of ball with bellerin sidelined

 

Bellerin is a huge miss

We also need a pacey lb as well. Look how much better kol has looked

@mebeSajid have i not said this in our conversations?

Wide quick transitions with pull backs in the floor with a press

Problem is our wide players are poor lol

I guess this is why he persists in a 343 because u can play ozil with 2 strikers and help the defence out

 

If we upgrade two cb’s leave bellerjn and kola as backs
Get winger - we should be more secure in emery style
But it’s a tall order when this club is ********ing up on exiting players

 

Winning things doesn't make them better players, it just means they are playing on better teams. Cesc was in and out of the lineup at Barcelona. I think Ox will likely have the same experience at Liverpool.

 

FAir enough. You didn't say 'better' though. In your own words, which I quoted, you mentioned 'success'.

 

This wasn't the narrative the big papers were going with when Mustafi was leaking to David Hytner that defenders had no help under Wenger. https://t.co/l9eH7yvTA5

— Oscar (@Reunewal) January 2, 2019

 

For sure.

Just think its funny how the story has changed the last month. (truthfully, the story was exactly the same but teams werent scoring)

 

That risk is always going to exist. The bigger problem is the midfield is too slow to shut down those passes, but the chance Sessengon had early yesterday was insane: it came from a pass from the Fulham GK.

A pass from a GK should never yield a 1v1.

 

That's what makes Alisson so damn good. He's got a killer long ball into the channels