PBP: Match Thread: USA vs Bosnia Herzegovina

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by Sebsasour, Jan 28, 2018.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    That's a very weak rival though. I watched the first half and, by golly, they leave the Benfica guys all the time in the world with the ball. And their defenders have no concept of the offside trap, it seems.

    I'm sorry but the last phrase that comes to my mind watching it is "great soccer."
     
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  2. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    You make it sound like the USSF has goons going around, rounding up 16 year olds, and sending them to Europe. Come on, you know why this is happening. It is because MLS HG contracts will tie you up forever in MLS at low wages and no chance of moving on to bigger things.

    The kids, their parents, and the people they hire to help them are telling them to bypass MLS. I read your posts, I don't see you ever arguing that MLS is the problem.

    And I hate to break it to you, but most 16 year olds don't make it anywhere. Every year, every pro team in the world has a full U17 squad, but in 5 years very few of those kids are still around. MLS Academies have been around long enough to wash out plenty of guys at 21 and 22 who are in USL or out of soccer. Luckily, for the kids like Canouse that went to Germany and washed out at 22, they can come back to MLS and become a star.
     
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  3. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    You have to understand that the situation here is not as it is in the big soccer countries. The MLS model is a business model, not a development model, because there used to be no money to be made in soccer.

    People don't start clubs out of the goodness of their heart, they do it because they want to make money. Things like pro/rel and the academies paying kids to play instead of asking them to pay is typical when soccer is profitable, when 50%+ of the population are willing to spend money on it, when coverage by the media is 24/7, when any article signed is worth gold, when kids demand from their parents to get the latest jersey, the latest cleats, the most expensive balls.

    MLS in America had to follow a completely different model because people here just didn't care. The model was necessary because soccer could not be self-sustaining. We hit the peak and moved past it, and I'm not sure we could have made the jump --the ideal time was after 2010, when we won our World Cup group and regular people were actually caring a bit about soccer.

    But no, they had to bring in someone to badmouth the system and try to change the culture from the top, someone who instead of using the momentum to build on the incipient fan base used it to criticize the system, call the league "uncompetitive," and cap players who had never even visited the USA in their lives.

    It was brutal, a total wrong note. It was the right moment to do the jump, to talk about pro/rel, to convince the networks and the owners to invest in the academies so beyond the two working class token kids they could actually bring in a whole generation of them.

    It didn't happen. Instead of looking at the mass of kids who love soccer in America but who can't afford all the safeties needed plus the club fees (they demand that you got shin guards, mouth guards, even helmets in many places, you have to spend well north of 700 bucks just to start, plus the fees), to create a passionate fan base and change the culture from the bottom up, Klinsmann told us we had to copy Europe by bringing players from there.

    It was boneheaded, and we're paying for it. The moment was lost, the ratings started falling. People want to watch a National Team with players developed by the local system, not guys who choose to play for this NT because their first and second choices didn't want them!

    We made the youth setup a filter to keep the youth teams from becoming 100% Mexican-American, with an eye to keeping a certain level of diversity, so the sport could grow out of the barrio. Yes, some see a lot of racism in that. But it was necessary, the sport was not going to sustain itself if only first generation working class immigrants were into it. And most of us were ok with it, we saw the practical side of it.

    But when we hit the top of the wave and was the right moment to get the masses and the mass media involved, we failed to see it and anyone who criticized Klinsmann's lack of connection with the fan base and the realpolitiks of growing the game got branded a "Nativist" or worse a "racist."

    Heck, no. It's not racism, just like it wasn't racism to make the academies work the way they have done. It was necessary. But people here are conditioned to think that it's ok to exclude the Mexicans, but not so the Europeans. So when the carefully tended model of growth was broken and some said, "watch out! bringing players who are not invested in the country but only as an afterthought is going to alienate the fan base!" a majority went, "oh no! that's ethno-nationalism!"

    I'm sorry but it was dumb. MLS is terrible in many ways, their policies to keep players are stupid, the way they fail to use young players is dumb. But we're going to keep stuck with a lousy league for a long time yet, because things cannot change now that no one cares about soccer again. Pro/rel + end of "pay for play" when you have 8,000 people attending NT matches and 11,000 people watching MLS games on TV? Not going to happen.
     
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  4. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True. Pulisic should have instead locked himself into a five yr HG deal with Philly.

    What could have been.

    And McKennie should have also signed a 5 yr HG deal with FCD so he could sit behind the MLS media's darling in Kellyn Acosta who can't even escape dribble a Martinique semi pro, never mind Sargent should have bypassed one of the top 3 development leagues on the planet so he could spend a year with Swope Park.
     
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  5. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    It's academy ball. Absolutely, we don't know what happens to Parks' game with the senior team when "shots are fired in anger". I' m not saying it's great CL soccer or great EPL soccer. I can only compare it to what it is. I'm also talking about Parks' game within the context of academy ball, not how the other players are playing. Heck, Parks' off the ball movement went unrecognized most of the time by his teammates meaning he could have showed much better.

    No, it wasn't Barcelona v Madrid. Just sayin', I thought that would be obvious.
     
  6. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The big difference with Pulisic is that his family knew what they were doing. That's a rare exception.

    Wes owes his development to the Dallas Academy. Attributing his growth to Schalke would be petty: he was one year in their youth setup, but spent his crucial years (11-18) with Dallas. And let's not forget his position with his club is not exactly settled. Unlike Pulisic, he's still fighting to keep playing.

    They're the exception.

    I'm not saying going to Europe is bad, but that the mentality that you must go to Europe as soon as possible under no matter what terms is bad. Just drop by the Yanks Abroad forum and check the page after page of young, exciting players who left early and never amounted to anything. Read the threads: the majority didn't even seem to have got the chance.
     
  7. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Good rant but I would suggest there is no anti-latino racism in the system other than a failure to understand what good futbol is. I wrote out a long post on this subject but deleted it because I don't feel like opening a can of worms. It's pretty simple: If I were to make up my 23 man best team I'm sure the number of minorities would correspond to their percentage in the population at large.

    The number of latinos on the scene in USA soccer is increasing day by day. Quality will come to the fore in the end.
     
  8. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Can you tell if that is a back heel? I guess the heel is quicker than the eye, lol
     
  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    People talk about changing the system and making it conform the system in Europe. They completely miss the point: it's not that we lack a soccer culture because the system sucks; it's that the system sucks because we lack a soccer culture.

    The only way pro/rel is going to work without enough fans financing the clubs is if we do like the Chinese and have the government fund the clubs through grants and tax exemptions*.

    We're too capitalistic for that.


    PS: The Chinese model is based on Xi Jinping's love for the sport. He's the guy who promised the funding and to increase sports spending to £600 billion (close to a trillion bucks). Of course in the last months sane people have put the brakes on his pet project.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-does-money-come-catching-Premier-League.html
     
  10. zlatan_but_a_car

    Botswana Meat Commission FC
    United States
    Oct 16, 2017
    Someone uploaded a better quality highlight reel, it was indeed a backheel (maaaybe off the outside of his boot, but still an acrobatic assist):
     
  11. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe he meant "It's greatly one-sided soccer"....
     
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  12. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Famalicao is an awful team. They would struggle mightily against, say, Orange County FC. Benfica is a genuinely good team, one of the top three in Portugal. To consider that match "great soccer" is the sort of confusion on the concept that would declare Michael Tyson destroying me in 30 seconds of a boxing match as "great boxing".
     
  13. ChrisSSBB

    ChrisSSBB Member+

    Jun 22, 2005
    DE
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The goalie on Famalicao was comical particularly the first goal. Looked High School level. Nice touch for an assist but it isn't like something you couldn't see at almost any level of play. Still, well executed.
     
  14. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I hear you. And I totally agree. I just live in the now, and right now the MLS is more of a black hole to development of talented youth. I see signs in some of the development academies but it's going to take time and the right focus in the MLS and USSF.
     
  15. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    I saw the video..push out pulisic. parks in he is the greatest talent I've seen in years...uh no relax. I am glad he played well in the jv game.

    he has shown enough to warrant a look; from the jv squad the u23 group. wc qualifying will be here before you know it..he has plenty of time to prove himself though. work his way up to a first team somewhere get some results and then he can play with the big team.

    adu scored goals in that league at that age...relax. people are crazy with this desperate need to find a player for the program to build around.
     
  16. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006

    lol I hope this kid doesn't score a goal you guys have going to have strokes with excitement. I love the idea of pushing pulisic out and moving a dm mckennie to the playmaker spot a role his skills don't translate to. you talk about the match sunday...did you see what happens when you put a 6/8 at the 10 and ask them to do something they don't have the skills to do...nothing happens as in nothing offensively.
     
  17. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It took time for everybody. They got 50 years on us, we went to sleep from WW2 to 1993. We won't see the success of soccer in America, it's something for those coming after us.

    Well, if you're young, you got a better shot. I know I won't see it.
     
  18. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    This is false!
     
  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    We're talking about the local league, not the NT.
     
  20. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    There is a reason why we had so many talented players from NJ coming up in the late 80s/early 90s.
     
  21. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    We didn't have a country-wide system in place, and that was necessary to promote the development of soccer and its culture in the country as a whole, beyond the Northeast circles (formed mainly by British/Irish immigrants and their children).
     
  22. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #497 ussoccer97531, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
    Parks-McKennie
    Carleton
    Pomykal-Wright-Pulisic
     
  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    And we didn’t have one in 1993. It’s weird all those northwest teams took off when the league expanded. Their names seemed familiar and one of them thinks they have been around for over 40 years.
     
  24. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Yeah you got me wrong. I am not anointing him anything and if said that then I misspoke. I am big Pulisic guy and he is somebody established enough to count on going forward. Although I can't say that in present form he is all that. (I don't think it is all his fault, but he could have responded better) To be fair BVB have been a mess this season and he is not good enough yet to take the games over at that level and is showing some signs of frustration.

    As to the Parks/Adu analogy. SMH! Parks isnt 20 going on 29. Benfica signed him to a new deal until 2022 after his debut. They see a player there and have shown every appearance of being keen on developing him. He has done enough every outing to warrant another chance.

    I am high on him but I am not saying he is about to go for 80 mil to Barca or anything.
     
  25. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Dude you need to put down the hater-ade. He fits fine with Weston in a two man midfield and Pulisic sitting above them in a three line with maybe Saief on one side and I don't know who on the other and a striker/target/hold-up/goal scorer to be named later leading the line.

    This isn't an either or thing. We don't have a real destroyer, Dwill certainly isn't that "type" of player. It isn't looking McKinnie is going to play that role for Schalke.

    I want a wide net cast.
     

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