Match Thread - MLS CUP FINAL - TORONTO FC VS. SEATTLE SOUNDERS FC - DECEMBER 10, 2016 (R)

A week when the weather is steadily in decline on average...statistically, I bet, the weather on average is colder and snowier on December 17 than December 10

 

I know it's not what you meant, but I laughed at the 1994 final being the greatest game on the planet

 

ha...on the contrary..the game in 1994 was one of the worst displays.....of the greatest game on the planet (World cup final takes no backseat to any other sporting final, or event)...ya Italy and Brazil showed how to destroy the game that year.

 

TOareaFan, according to that graph, we move from about 45% of "freezing" days to 55% "freezing" days at a time where the average high temperature is around zero degrees. I'll even extend this to the tail ends of the month. If the first leg was on December 1st, the average high is +2. If the second leg was on December 31st, the average high is -1. The temperature typically falls three degrees over the entire month. A week is inconsequential.

 

I like the idea of a home and home final. Keep in mind that TFC's second leg home game vs Montreal was on November 30th and the league had to have 10 days off to prepare the final. If it's home and home, the first leg could have been on the 7th (Wednesday) and the second leg on the 14th or even the 11th.

 

yes averages are not "that" different...but the extremes that make the averages may be. I really can't believe we are arguing that playing in Toronto in the second half of December is a good idea....but if we are, let's move on....i doubt either of us is going to change the other's opinion.

 

The league is never gonna have their championship match(es) on Wednesdays.

 

Agreed. The grand finale could be the 11th. A Sunday.

 

you've lost me now....if you have a two legged tie there is no "grand finale" it is the second half of a match that started on (i am guessing from your timeline) the 4th.....so this year you would have had a team go into the 1st leg of the final on 4 days rest?

there are other reasons a two legged thing is not happening (like the same reasons 5,000 season tickets were scooped)...sponsors and league partners want a "final"...a one day event that they can attend and make a big deal about.

 

By grand finale I mean when the cup is presented to the winning side.

And no I wouldn't have them play this year on the 4th. Game 1 would be on the 7th.

I totally get that.

We are just bantering about alternative ways to decide the champions. The one game final is the MLS' big day.

 

see comment about league never doing it on a Wednesday....and then you would be having the 2nd leg 4 days later?

I don't mind banter...but we are talking about something totally unworkable.

I, for one, thing that one game finals are in the grand tradition of our sport....tournaments worldwide, many of which have two legged ties in earlier rounds, culminate in a single game final.

 

Keep in mind TFC only played on November 30th, a Wednesday, due to the Grey Cup at BMO. Sea vs Col was on the previous Saturday or Sunday. In a non-Grey Cup at BMO year, they would have played the second leg, say, Saturday then the first leg of the finals on Saturday Dec. 3rd. Then second leg Dec. 10th.
It could work.

That's true. And it won't change.

 

Giovinco blames Argos for loss...lol (hint of sarcasm)

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/mls/sebastian-giovinco-bmo-field-mls-cup-1.3894638

another reason why we don't need the CFL in Toronto...beside the fact that no one cares!

 

I suppose a winter in Quebec City and three winters in Ottawa make me somewhat immune to what people in Toronto perceive as cold. I'd be out watching TFC in January.

I just hate the idea of having two games in every other round and then suddenly a one-game final. I also see two games as a way to help reduce the chance of deciding it in penalty kicks. I'm not with the people who watch other sports who naively think soccer players should just play endless extra times and have no clue what this would be like for a soccer player but I do think we should minimize the chances of extra time and two legged games are the most obvious way it seems. I don't care how they make it work and what dates they use, just find a way.

 

I apologize for the long post/rant but I've been seeing similar stories and misleading titles everywhere (though the cbc one and another from a cfl-related source are the worst I've seen) so thought I'd supply direct quotes from the Giovinco interview through his translator, most important bits underlined:

First question/answer: "I analyzed all the factors over the last two months after I came back from my injury and nothing really changed in my life, in my training, if not for battle [I'm assuming he means playoffs basically]. Also, I analyzed the fact that during these playoffs, the best games I've played were all away games. Considering that last year, I had great winning streaks and great games on the home field, maybe the only factor that may have contributed somehow in changing since last year...is that now this year another team was playing in BMO Field, and that may have contributed to changing something in the pitch."

Follow-up: "My only point is about not being able to help the team until the very end; we may have lost the final anyway. Nevertheless, over the last four years, I never had a single episode of cramps, and for the last four matches, I suffered from cramps three times. With all other factors being equal, something must have changed somewhere else."

So basically he's wondering if the pitch has changed this year affecting his fitness, and if the pitch changing is due to the Argos. Not once does he actually come close to blaming the Argos for the loss, it just seemed more like voicing his concerns about his recent injury-related problems. You (by this I mean anyone) could argue that he's downplaying the cold factor, that he didn't raise his game enough for the intensity of the playoffs, that he wasn't much better at home last year or away in the playoffs, that the pitch didn't factor as much as he says (though apparently Bradley and Altidore also think it changed this year, I haven't gotten around to today's non-Seba interviews yet), and you'd at least have a point. I just don't see how anyone can look at the actual interview and seriously think Giovinco is blaming the Argos for losing MLS Cup. That's a huge overstatement and the worst kind of clickbait journalism. Seba was voicing his honest, valid concerns, and hack media people manipulated or outright changed his words to make it seem like he was putting this all on the football team and creating a story that was never, in reality, there. This is a journalistic failure in accurately reporting news. The CFL players' responses were stupid, but I can at least be kind of sympathetic to them since they were probably just following the narrative "TFC star blames Argos for losing, moar TFC hates Argos" that all this shitty coverage pushes.

TL;DR: Giovinco was wondering if the Argos influence the pitch, which in turn influenced his performances and fitness/cramps, he WAS NOT outright blaming the Argos for the loss. This is only a big deal in the media because of the clickbait articles and headlines.

To add, I can't find any footage of Giovinco's actual answer since TSN replaced their original footage with the relevant sportsnet clip but kept the url, so i guess it's gone now? And TFC's footage has his translator's answer overlaid on Giovinco's. I really want to know exactly what he said, since, through his translator, blaming the argos for the loss is innacurate. Was hoping you, based on your country/club listed, spoke and understood Italian and could help, but alas, unless the original clip is still out there, it's no use. Not the end of the world since translators usually get the gist of it right, but would have been nice to put things beyond doubt

Here are the clips I mentioned:

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/video/giovinco-blames-bmo-s-other-tenant-for-poor-play-at-home~1014017
http://www.torontofc.ca/post/2016/1...xt-few-years-sebastian-giovinco?autoplay=true