Match 18: COL-CRC - ARGOTE (VEN)

Discussion in 'Copa América 2016 - Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Country/National team:
    United States
    Saturday June 11, 2016 - 9:00 (EDT) - Houston
    Referee: Jose Argote

    Assistant Referee 1: Luis Sanchez
    Assistant Referee 2: Luis Murillo
    Fourth Official: Daniel Fedorczuk (URU)

    This thread is for all pre-match, play-by-play and post-match discussion and analysis of the refereeing team. Per the forum guidelines (, this thread will be heavily moderated. For more general or partisan discussions of the match, please go to the general Group thread or the individual team forums.
  2. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
    I was at this match, sitting on the AR2 side. This has been discussed at length recently in another thread.
    AR1 drove me crazy. Inevitably, when he was facing the field - just standing or sidestepping - he held the flag in his right (goal side) hand. Wherever he was on the touch line. When walking, jogging, or running, facing either the goal line or the half way line, he held it correctly -field side. I had to quit watching him it irritated me so much.
  3. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    No need to get irritated, This is a method used by ARs in many countries. Primary reason is that most signals will be with the right hand. EPL in England and therefore MLS in US, (and hence everyone else in US) recommends left-hand flag holding. Primary reason is for thinking time it provides during the switch-over. It is really an individual preference, like Fords and Chevys. But some places mandate which can be used and insist on it.
    There may or may not be any studies to show which is better or more accurate, although this may contribute to the research/evidence:

    usaref repped this.
  4. Bradley Smith

    Bradley Smith Member

    Jul 29, 2013
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Country/National team:
    United States
    Exactly this. CONCACAF instructs the right-hand approach when level with or inside the penalty area while side-stepping. As a result, that's what gets taught here in Canada. US Soccer and PRO choose to not instruct that, for reasons cited in the PRO link above. I think both method's have their validity and it's just personal preference/local instruction that makes the decision for you.

    BTW, if you watched either of the USA crews so far this tournament (both Geiger's and Marrufo's), the ARs also did the right-hand approach in the penalty area — which is different than what they do week-to-week in MLS.
  5. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Good points. I must remember to observe what the ARs in the Euros are doing. It will be interesting to see if anything is mandated or if the ARs can use whichever method they are more comfortable with (which FWIW is what I personally think should be the case). This avoids the situation where ARs use one method at home and another in the tournaments, as is clearly happening with the US crews.

  6. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
    I understand the pros and cons of holding the flag in the goal side hand at the PA. However, on the remainder of the line it has always seem to me that holding it in the half way line side made the most sense, having been taught that back in 1981. The ref can see it better.

    FWIW, AR2, also from Venezuela, generally held it half way line side. Occasionally though, after running toward the half way line and then turning and facing the field, was somewhat slow in transferring it to the other hand.
  7. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Who taught that back then?
    I don't recall any specific instructions along these lines until fairly recently (10-15 years).
    Although I did hear some instructors suggesting to keep the flag in the same hand all the time, to avoid
    dropping it during switching.
    Before then nobody worried about little things like this.
    If a ref cannot see a flag in whatever hand it is in, he should not be doing the game:D. In any event, he really only needs to see it if it is raised, right?

  8. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    OK, I watched the ARs in the Euros, and it so far seems that some use left hands, and some use right hands. I didn't
    make a note of which country did what. I will continue to check it out. But it looks like they are free to use whichever method they prefer without anyone insisting on a particular style. This is the correct thing to do IMO, unlike the Copa ARs who seem to be forced to use the right hand method.

    Personally I used to strongly prefer the right hand method, and used it myself when on the line. But I have come
    to be convinced that there could be advantages to the left hand method, but not enough for it to be taught as
    the exclusive and only method. So each to his own. Just get the decisions right!

  9. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    What a silly thought. Next thing you'll be saying is sleeve length doesn't matter . . . :cool:
  10. SiempreCrema

    SiempreCrema Member+

    Feb 4, 2015
    Universitario de Deportes
    Country/National team:
    Argote was found out to be Colombian after he reffed the Atletico Nacional - Huracan game. Why was he allowed to referee here? Unless those files were found to be false.
  11. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    I have said that plenty of times too:laugh:.


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