Match 1: USA-COL - GARCIA (MEX)

Discussion in 'Copa América 2016 - Refereeing' started by MassachusettsRef, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #1 MassachusettsRef, Jun 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
    Friday June 3, 2016 - 9:30 (EDT) - Santa Clara
    Referee: Roberto Garcia Orozco

    Assistant Referee 1: Jose Luis Camargo
    Assistant Referee 2: Alberton Morin
    Fourth Official: Wilton Sampaio (BRA)

    This thread is for all pre-match, play-by-play and post-match discussion and analysis of the refereeing team. Per the forum guidelines (http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/welcome-forum-guidelines.2032251/), this thread will be heavily moderated. For more general or partisan discussions of the match, please go to the general Group thread or the individual team forums.
     
  2. Bradley Smith

    Bradley Smith Member

    Jul 29, 2013
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    One-arm advantage signal has already made an appearance. Still not sure I like it...
     
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    You don't have to try to keep up with world class athletes with two arms in the air. ;)
     
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  4. Bradley Smith

    Bradley Smith Member

    Jul 29, 2013
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Haha. I get the reason/benefit. Just looks weird. It'll probably seem normal in due time, though.

    The first time he used it, he wasn't running.;)
     
  5. ColoradoRef

    ColoradoRef Member

    Jul 10, 2011
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Easy handling call.
     
  6. El_Bulla

    El_Bulla Member

    Jan 21, 2007
    Penalty looked like a good call. Hand was extended, but it wasn't intentional, so I think penalty but no yellow was the right call.
     
  7. oxwof

    oxwof Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That seems like a nice example of "deliberate, but not intentional."
     
  8. chaoslord08

    chaoslord08 Member

    Dec 24, 2006
    Fayetteville AR
    Club:
    West Bromwich Albion FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeeeeeeep. Announcers trying to find a way to make it out to be a bad call, though, haha
     
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  9. oxwof

    oxwof Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Oh, good, I can't wait to hear what Dr. Joe has to say....
     
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  10. chaoslord08

    chaoslord08 Member

    Dec 24, 2006
    Fayetteville AR
    Club:
    West Bromwich Albion FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Clearly not deliberate handling... [stuff about unnatural playing position].. it's handling under the letter of the law."

    Dr. Joe, I... uhh... what?
     
  11. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clear PK to me, Lalas correct, Friedel out to lunch, and Joe was a bit confusing...
     
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  12. Dr. Gamera

    Dr. Gamera Member+

    Oct 13, 2005
    Wheaton, Maryland
    As a partisan USA fan, the only quibble I have with the referee's performance is the lack of any yellow cards for persistent infringement.
     
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  13. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    Was just going to say the same during the game. you'd think on the 5th foul in the same area (30 yds from goal center in attacking end) that PI would come into play.

    COL stifled most of the US's attacking runs in this part of the field
     
  14. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    And I am partisan as well for the US, and MB90 is one of my favorite players. He had 3 in the same spot on the other side of the field (two play-ons) alone. The ref was consistent.
     
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  15. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    I didn't get to see the match — How many kickoffs were played backwards instead of forwards or did no one bother to tell the players the new LOTG?
     
  16. Dr. Gamera

    Dr. Gamera Member+

    Oct 13, 2005
    Wheaton, Maryland
    Yes -- I would not have minded PI yellow cards being handed out to both teams. In no way am I accusing the referee of a pro-Colombia bias. I imagine the referee chose, or was instructed, to lean towards fewer yellow cards in this tournament format.
     
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  17. Bradley Smith

    Bradley Smith Member

    Jul 29, 2013
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    As far as I recall, none. All the ones I remember were of the slight tap forward to the second player who then kicked it backwards to a midfielder.
     
  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I wasn't tracking who committed the fouls, so I have no idea if PI should have come into play against any particular player. (Fouls by different players in a particular area of the field is not itself basis for PI.). But I'm surprised none were considered tactical.

    More than being concerned by the lack of cautions, I was distressed by the US being unable to take advantage of any of those many FK opportunities.
     
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  19. Dr. Gamera

    Dr. Gamera Member+

    Oct 13, 2005
    Wheaton, Maryland
    Oh yes, although that has nothing to do with the referee.
     
  20. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Ow c'mon. If everything that goes wrong for the team's when I referee is my fault, why isn't it his fault the US couldn't capitalize on their FKs? Gee whiz!
     
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  21. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Disclaimer: Not a ref but a frequent lurker.

    I remember a poster on here (presumably a ref and a respected poster) saying that constant fouling by the team (who rotate the players who foul) can still be PI and once the ref gets wind of it he cards the next offender. did i imagine the whole thing or is that not the case?
     
  22. bhooks

    bhooks Member

    Apr 14, 2015
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That is correct. Persistent infringement can be one player consistently fouling, but also can be one player consistently getting fouled by different members of the opposing team.
     
  23. sulfur

    sulfur Member+

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    That's Unsporting Behaviour.

    Persistent Infringement only applies to a single player fouling.

    Targeting a single player? USB.
     
  24. o5iiawah

    o5iiawah Member

    Oct 31, 2008
    So help me out then- last weekend u12b developmental tourney team from NYC vs PA. NYC has a lot of Spanish kids used to a harder style of play. 1H and their team is persistently fouling as PA tries to bring the ball out of their area. 3rd foul my whistle starts getting harder. 4th foul i make presence known and give a "Settle down" to the offending player. 5th foul i issue a yellow to the miscreant. No player on PA was fouled more than twice and no player on NYC committed more than 2 fouls but it was clear that this was tactical in nature and was prt of their gameplan.
    I wrote it up as PI- which i now know to be wrong but for the purposes of the report and procedure, should this be USB-Tactical foul? Thx
     
  25. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Yes. Or generic USB.

    The reason it isn't PI is in the definition. A player is cautioned if guilty of persistent infringement of the Laws; if that player hasn't previously infringed, he can't have persistently infringed. But this is all referee semantics: the important part is identifying and sanctioning the disruptive behavior.
     

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